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  1. #1
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    Defense + Mark Teixeira

    I honestly do not know much about defensive sabermetrics. A crash course on some stats would be nice, but I'd also like to know how Mark Teixeira's defense is rated at a value of -2.0 on Fan Graphs.

  2. #2
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    Well Tex has generally been an average defender throughout his career, although his seasons have been very inconsistent.

    I can't explain UZR very well, as the primer for it is extremely long, but what the hell.

    UZR measures how well a player plays at his position in relation to everyone else, and it measures range and errors, and then also arm for outfielders, and double play runs for infielders.

    Teixeira's range last year was a career high, and that's something I can't explain. But basically, he gets to fewer balls than the average 1B.

  3. #3
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    There is no good defensive saber stat. They are all flawed. UZR is the king of the trailer park

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYK Lebron NYK View Post
    There is no good defensive saber stat. They are all flawed. UZR is the king of the trailer park
    Agreed. UZR is probably the best but it's still pretty flawed, it's like the prettiest girl at an Inner Beauty Pageant.


  5. #5
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    I just have a hard time believing that Tex is a below average defensive first baseman. I understand his range isn't that great, but I just feel he's saved Jeter and company so many errors.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven View Post
    I just have a hard time believing that Tex is a below average defensive first baseman. I understand his range isn't that great, but I just feel he's saved Jeter and company so many errors.
    UZR and other defensive metrics do NOT take into account the first baseman's ability to handle throws, because the data for that is not readily available. That being said, some first basemen will be underrated by these systems, and others will be overrated.

    Here's a nice article written by Mitchel Lichtman (the creator of UZR) about a potential way to rate first basemen on "scoops."
    My blog- analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.

  7. #7
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    This isn't Tex related, but it's UZR related.

    There was an article on Beltran on Frangraphs about a month ago talking about his - UZR and how CitiField was to blame. They also mentioned something about how they didn't know enough about Citi to compensate for it and were still using stats from Shea, so how long does that usually take to figure out?

    Sorry, I'm really not trying to steer away from the Tex talk, but since you guys were talking about UZR and how it can be flawed I wanted to ask. I know Beltran is getting older, but he's still a great defensive CFer. It's just odd seeing his UZR so high over the years and now so low. I do know that he likes to play deep, so he has let some shallow balls drop in front of him, but honestly as a fan I'd rather him let singles drop in front of him rather than potential doubles or triples go past him in the gaps or over his head.

    He also did the same thing in Shea, but his UZR was still a lot higher.
    Last edited by ritz; 07-04-2009 at 11:09 PM.
    Props to MetsLegacy

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven View Post
    I just have a hard time believing that Tex is a below average defensive first baseman. I understand his range isn't that great, but I just feel he's saved Jeter and company so many errors.
    We're also used to seeing Giambi play first. Stephen Hawkings could field it better.

  9. #9
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    Texeira from what I saw with him on the Braves has extremely poor range but makes up for it in his play around the bag on throws. He's one player underrated by UZR but to the people that always say he is one of the best defensive 1b in the game, i question that due to his total lack of mobility around the bag

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ritz View Post
    This isn't Tex related, but it's UZR related.

    There was an article on Beltran on Frangraphs about a month ago talking about his - UZR and how CitiField was to blame. They also mentioned something about how they didn't know enough about Citi to compensate for it and were still using stats from Shea, so how long does that usually take to figure out?
    At least three years of data for it to be truly accurate. Five years is better.
    My blog- analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by misterd View Post
    We're also used to seeing Giambi play first. Stephen Hawkings could field it better.
    Giambi takes way too much flak. At the very least he was adept at scooping low throw balls, or which he saw many.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by C1Bman88 View Post
    UZR and other defensive metrics do NOT take into account the first baseman's ability to handle throws, because the data for that is not readily available. That being said, some first basemen will be underrated by these systems, and others will be overrated.

    Here's a nice article written by Mitchel Lichtman (the creator of UZR) about a potential way to rate first basemen on "scoops."
    Justin Morneau = Underrated Defensively

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwilson21 View Post
    Justin Morneau = Underrated Defensively
    Sean Smith did a study on "scoops" made by first basemen- the usual suspects were at the top of the list (Todd Helton, Travis Lee, Keith Hernandez, John Olerud, J.T. Snow, etc.) and the ones you would expect to be at the bottom of the list (Mo Vaughn, Frank Thomas, Carlos Delgado, etc.). Morneau was a -4 runs per 1000 throws. The only player near the bottom of this list that I'd disagree with is Don Mattingly.

    This study was done up until 2007, so I guess this begs the question as to whether or not Morneau has improved substantially over the course of 1.5 seasons or if there's some sort of error in the data processing. Or, if there's bias on your behalf.
    My blog- analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by C1Bman88 View Post
    Sean Smith did a study on "scoops" made by first basemen- the usual suspects were at the top of the list (Todd Helton, Travis Lee, Keith Hernandez, John Olerud, J.T. Snow, etc.) and the ones you would expect to be at the bottom of the list (Mo Vaughn, Frank Thomas, Carlos Delgado, etc.). Morneau was a -4 runs per 1000 throws. The only player near the bottom of this list that I'd disagree with is Don Mattingly.

    This study was done up until 2007, so I guess this begs the question as to whether or not Morneau has improved substantially over the course of 1.5 seasons or if there's some sort of error in the data processing. Or, if there's bias on your behalf.
    Probably is some bias but ask any fan who watches the Twins on a consistent basis and Morneau has gotten better and better at "scoops". He has been tremendous at saving errors for the rest of the infield. Plus like other SABR stats, this one has flaws and I think it's much harder to gauge how well a player is at "scoops" than any other defensive stat.

  15. #15
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    How can you say that when you haven't even read Sean Smith's study on scoops (unless I misread your post, and you were referring to UZR at the beginning of your sentence)?

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