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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantes4Life View Post
    ISO and ISOp are the same thing, the p is just added on to avoid confusion.

    A .200 ISO is usually very good.

    Bonds bRAA in 04: 96.5
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  2. #122
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    Just wanted to give you an idea of average

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantes4Life View Post
    That's not what I'm saying. You almost had it right. "His job is to not let a batter hit it, or at least not hit it well." Yes. All he can control is from when he lets the ball go till the batter swings. The batter will either K, BB, get HBP or hit a GB, FB, LD or HR. His job is to avoid walks, line drives, walk as few as possible and have more groundballs than flyballs.

    As for OPS against. Sure it can be used, but it's very ballpark dependent, and a pitcher doesn't have much control of whether balls are a single, double or triple. Why should he be punished because his defense has no range, no arm, or the batter is quick. Or maybe he has large gaps at his ballpark. I think that's the best way to explain it.
    OPS for hitters is also ballpark and defense dependent though. Hitters may get robbed of base hits or get lucky on some because of the park or defense. So it seems like that same logic applies to both sides.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoggin88 View Post
    OPS for hitters is also ballpark and defense dependent though. Hitters may get robbed of base hits or get lucky on some because of the park or defense. So it seems like that same logic applies to both sides.
    It does and should. Which is a big problem I have with WAR. For pitchers its theoretical for hitters its production.

    Now granted for hitters it should even itself out a little bit over a year better than a pitcher but not all the time.

    THT has a stat I like called PrOPS. I would like to see more stats like it, and readily available.

    Its odd that we take ERA as nearly worthless, but then take stats like wOBA and OPS as if they are golden. Its rather odd.
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  5. #125
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    nevermind lol.


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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoggin88 View Post
    OPS for hitters is also ballpark and defense dependent though. Hitters may get robbed of base hits or get lucky on some because of the park or defense. So it seems like that same logic applies to both sides.
    The difference is the impact. For hitters, it's marginal.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoggin88 View Post
    OPS for hitters is also ballpark and defense dependent though. Hitters may get robbed of base hits or get lucky on some because of the park or defense. So it seems like that same logic applies to both sides.
    OPS is in more control by the hitter though. If two players hit a line drive in the gap, they won't necessarily have the same result.

    Quote Originally Posted by poodski View Post
    It does and should. Which is a big problem I have with WAR. For pitchers its theoretical for hitters its production.

    Now granted for hitters it should even itself out a little bit over a year better than a pitcher but not all the time.

    THT has a stat I like called PrOPS. I would like to see more stats like it, and readily available.

    Its odd that we take ERA as nearly worthless, but then take stats like wOBA and OPS as if they are golden. Its rather odd.
    It is, but the way ERA fluctuates so much it makes sense. And I like PrOPS too

  8. #128
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    I know nothing about Sabermetrics....quick question though. Someone stated that Jayson Werth was a "bad" fielder.

    For instance, last year he was a 16.9 Rng , 21.5 UZR and a 35.3 UZR/150...isn't that considered good? The season before that he was pretty high as well.

    What's considered good numbers when judging a fielder?

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Donnie View Post
    I know nothing about Sabermetrics....quick question though. Someone stated that Jayson Werth was a "bad" fielder.

    For instance, last year he was a 16.9 Rng , 21.5 UZR and a 35.3 UZR/150...isn't that considered good? The season before that he was pretty high as well.

    What's considered good numbers when judging a fielder?
    Werth is a fantastic fielder. Ignore the butthurt Dodgers fans.

    A 0 UZR is average, which makes his 21.5 UZR from last season phenomenal. Only Alex Rios had a better mark among qualified outfielders. By contrast, Brad Hawpe's -37.2 UZR last season means he is ****ing atrocious in the field.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuckus View Post
    Werth is a fantastic fielder. Ignore the butthurt Dodgers fans.

    A 0 UZR is average, which makes his 21.5 UZR from last season phenomenal. Only Alex Rios had a better mark among qualified outfielders. By contrast, Brad Hawpe's -37.2 UZR last season means he is ****ing atrocious in the field.
    Well to be fair, the only reason Werth's UZR is that high is because his "Edge Coefficient," the amount a player looks like WWE Superstar Edge, is the highest in the league. It's just under 1.



  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Donnie View Post
    I know nothing about Sabermetrics....quick question though. Someone stated that Jayson Werth was a "bad" fielder.

    For instance, last year he was a 16.9 Rng , 21.5 UZR and a 35.3 UZR/150...isn't that considered good? The season before that he was pretty high as well.

    What's considered good numbers when judging a fielder?
    No he's a good fielder.

  12. #132
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    Are those three the best for judging how good of a fielder a particular player is?

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Donnie View Post
    Are those three the best for judging how good of a fielder a particular player is?
    Rng is a component of UZR. And UZR/150 is just UZR per 150 fielding games. So it's really not 3 different statistics.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamhead View Post
    Rng is a component of UZR. And UZR/150 is just UZR per 150 fielding games. So it's really not 3 different statistics.
    Gotcha...Thanks

  15. #135
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    This Thread = Win.

    Props.LgnD.

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