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  1. #1
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    BR: Derrick Rose and Jimmy Butler = Best Young Backcourt?

    How many other backcourts feature a 24-year-old NBA MVP and one of the league's fastest-rising stars?

    None? Well, that should make this easy to justify then.

    Derrick Rose is the best player I've featured in this article, bar none. James Harden is close, but Rose is just on another level when he's healthy. He's one of the few players who can challenge Chris Paul for the point guard crown, and his attacking mentality just makes everything far easier for the Chicago Bulls.

    Meanwhile, Jimmy Butler used Rose's absence to break out, and he'll look to continue that success after his point guard officially returns to the lineup. The Marquette product looked increasingly potent on offense as his second season progressed, and he was even showing off a deadly three-point shot and fadeaway step-back jumper.

    In fact, Butler shot 47.5 percent from behind the arc after the All-Star break, and he was lofting up shots twice a game. This wasn't just a fluke of small sample size, but rather, a consistent trend. He did top 40 percent from downtown in the postseason as well.

    Butler's game is all about defense, though. The offensive production is just gravy.

    He was a fearless defender throughout his second professional season, consistently guarding the opposing squad's best wing player and never looking overmatched.

    Despite the tough assignments, Butler still allowed only 0.76 points per possession, according to Synergy Sports (subscription required). That places him at No. 29, and he'll only get stronger (both literally and figuratively) as he bulks up and becomes more adept at preventing buckets in post-up situations.

    Chicago's backcourt—assuming a full return to health on the part of Rose—is simply as good as it gets, both in terms of young backcourts and old ones.
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...edition/page/9

    It's BR, but raises an interesting topic at least during a dead time of the year. There are a few good young backcourts in the league, so I was interested in seeing some other rankings.

  2. #2
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    well if br says so,i hope its true but still the site being what it is makes me dismiss anything from there.

    but yeah they'll be among the best ,along with curry/thompson

  3. #3
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    Yeah, Rose/Butler will be the best in the league... Even better than Curry/Thompson

  4. #4
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    Rose/Butler is better than Curry/Thompson because both of our guys can defend both of there guys, and I'm not sure the same can be said the other way around. If we are talking 3-pointers and pure shooting, than yes Curry/Thompsn is better, but based on the players as a whole, Rose/Butler is just better all around.

    I can't say I disagree with this point by B/R. The fact of the matter is, Rose is probably better then every PG in the league, and Butler is capable of stifling even the best SG's in the league.

    Curry/Thompson
    Williams/Johnson
    Lin/Harden
    Paul/Redick/Crawford
    Holiday/Gordon
    Parker/Green
    Wall/Beal
    Chalmers/Wade
    Nash/Kobe

    These are the only Combos even worth looking at, and none are better.
    Rose is better than Deron Williams and Joe Johnson couldn't handle Butlers D.
    Rose is more dominant than Curry, and I think Butler will be able to stifle Thompson
    Rose over Lin beats out Harden over Butler.
    Rose has never lost to Paul, and Butler is to athletic and big for Crawford/Redick.
    Rose is better than Holiday, and Gordon will be over matched by Butler's size.
    Wall and Beal don't have the experience or winning pedigree yet.
    Chalmers can't touch Rose and Butler is going to show Wade how old he is.
    Nash and Kobe are past their prime so this one isn't all that close.

    Parker and Green are probably the most even. Parker is just as unstoppable as Rose at times, he just does it in a more finesse kinda way. Rose is more speed and power and pure athleticism. Green can be a problem if Butler gives him space. They will be an interesting match up!!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    Rose/Butler is better than Curry/Thompson because both of our guys can defend both of there guys, and I'm not sure the same can be said the other way around. If we are talking 3-pointers and pure shooting, than yes Curry/Thompsn is better, but based on the players as a whole, Rose/Butler is just better all around.

    I can't say I disagree with this point by B/R. The fact of the matter is, Rose is probably better then every PG in the league, and Butler is capable of stifling even the best SG's in the league.

    Curry/Thompson
    Williams/Johnson
    Lin/Harden
    Paul/Redick/Crawford
    Holiday/Gordon
    Parker/Green
    Wall/Beal
    Chalmers/Wade
    Nash/Kobe

    These are the only Combos even worth looking at, and none are better.
    Rose is better than Deron Williams and Joe Johnson couldn't handle Butlers D.
    Rose is more dominant than Curry, and I think Butler will be able to stifle Thompson
    Rose over Lin beats out Harden over Butler.
    Rose has never lost to Paul, and Butler is to athletic and big for Crawford/Redick.
    Rose is better than Holiday, and Gordon will be over matched by Butler's size.
    Wall and Beal don't have the experience or winning pedigree yet.
    Chalmers can't touch Rose and Butler is going to show Wade how old he is.
    Nash and Kobe are past their prime so this one isn't all that close.

    Parker and Green are probably the most even. Parker is just as unstoppable as Rose at times, he just does it in a more finesse kinda way. Rose is more speed and power and pure athleticism. Green can be a problem if Butler gives him space. They will be an interesting match up!!!
    Did you see Curry in the playoffs this year? Rose has never dominated like that in the playoffs. Just saying, it's not as clear cut as you make it out to be. Paul/Redick are up there just as much as Klay/Curry are.

    I just feel you're picking at the longest straws as to why Rose/Butler is better than each matchup "Rose is more dominant here, Butler's size is an advantage here, etc etc" without looking at what the other end is better at (outside of you acknowledging Curry/Klay's efficiency in scoring)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyguy3 View Post
    Did you see Curry in the playoffs this year? Rose has never dominated like that in the playoffs. Just saying, it's not as clear cut as you make it out to be. Paul/Redick are up there just as much as Klay/Curry are.

    I just feel you're picking at the longest straws as to why Rose/Butler is better than each matchup "Rose is more dominant here, Butler's size is an advantage here, etc etc" without looking at what the other end is better at (outside of you acknowledging Curry/Klay's efficiency in scoring)
    Yeah, Curry rocked against Denver and then shot a hair over 40% against San Antonio, shooting an average 35% from 3 point range in the series. Besides his first game when he scored 44 points and shot over 40%, Curry didn't hit 50% shooting in the rest of that series. He shot 40% or lower in 4 of the 6 games.

    Jimmy and Rose are bigger, more physical, and Thibodeau's defense is more geared to stop them than GS's defense is geared to stop Rose and Jimmy. The Bulls Opponent 3 point FG% since Thibodeau arrived has been in the top 5 every year. If you take away Curry/Thompson's 3 point shots, they aren't nearly as effective. And Curry and Thompson are not known to be good, or even average, defenders. Besides pure shooting, what do Curry and Thompson do better than Rose and Butler?

    In my opinion, Rose and Butler are better around the rim, rebounding, defending, assisting, everything else.

  7. #7
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    We're talking STRICTLY guard combos, not "thibodeau's defense" or anyone's defense.

    This isn't just a head-to-head comparison, it's who will be more productive over the 82-game season, and it's silly to say Rose/Jimmy are easily gonna be the most productive backcourt. Could they? Yeah. Do I think they will be? Yeah... but to dismiss Curry/Klay or Parker/Green or CP3/Redick is silly

  8. #8
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    No, we're talking about who is going to be the best backcourt, not the "most productive". I believe Curry and Monta Ellis were the most productive offensively when they were together, but they certainly weren't the best all-around backcourt. Sure, Curry and Thompson can shoot, but can they defend Rose and Butler? The jury is still out on that one. JJ Redick is overrated, he's a slow and undersized SG who can only play one side of the ball. Rose has massacred CP3 in the past as well. Who on LAC and GS can defend Rose? No one.
    Last edited by Colin Spence; 07-30-2013 at 09:13 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyguy3 View Post
    Did you see Curry in the playoffs this year? Rose has never dominated like that in the playoffs. Just saying, it's not as clear cut as you make it out to be. Paul/Redick are up there just as much as Klay/Curry are.

    I just feel you're picking at the longest straws as to why Rose/Butler is better than each matchup "Rose is more dominant here, Butler's size is an advantage here, etc etc" without looking at what the other end is better at (outside of you acknowledging Curry/Klay's efficiency in scoring)
    Hawks 2nd round. After coming out of probably one of the toughest 1 v 8 playoffs.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
    Hawks 2nd round. After coming out of probably one of the toughest 1 v 8 playoffs.
    During that series, Rose averaged all-time numbers: 30/10/4 with 3.5 turnovers on mediocre efficiency: 52.8ts% 48.3efg%
    Stephen Curry during the Denver series averaged 24/9/4 with 3 turnovers on all-time great efficiency: 61.7ts% 57.3efg%

    It's a good debate to be had, and I honestly did forget how amazing Rose was that series, but I'd rather have Curry's production over those 6 games than Rose's in his 6 games.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Spence View Post
    No, we're talking about who is going to be the best backcourt, not the "most productive". I believe Curry and Monta Ellis were the most productive offensively when they were together, but they certainly weren't the best all-around backcourt. Sure, Curry and Thompson can shoot, but can they defend Rose and Butler? The jury is still out on that one. JJ Redick is overrated, he's a slow and undersized SG who can only play one side of the ball. Rose has massacred CP3 in the past as well. Who on LAC and GS can defend Rose? No one.
    Rose in no way massacred Chris Paul. He's played CP3 a total of 5 games in his career:
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...01&p2=paulch01

    During those 5 games, Rose averaged 17.6ppg 8.6apg 5.2rpg 3.6tov 2.39ast/tov
    During those 5 games, Paul averaged 18.4ppg 9.0apg 3.2rpg 2.0tov 4.5ast/tov

    Rose shot 31/77 from the field, 4/8 from three, 22/24 from the charity stripe = 42.9efg% 50.3ts%
    Paul shot 36/71 from the field, 6/10 from three, 14/17 from the charity stripe = 54.9efg% 58.6ts%

    if anything, Rose failed to slow Paul down. Just because the Bulls won all 5 games doesn't mean Rose dominated anybody. He got outplayed as a whole, as a matter of fact.

  12. #12
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    I love jimmy but i dont have much more hope for his offensive game, I hope im wrong but I never see him creating offensivly.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  13. #13
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    defensively our team is going to be i just hope the injury bug stays away

  14. #14
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    I love these debates.

    I just want to react to Shammy's stat comparison. Curry and Paul did better in individual stat sheet. But the fact that they have Klay and Blake on the offensive end, means they don't get the treatment D.Rose constantly gets on defense.

    2010-11 - Boozer is injured and D.Rose is left with Bogans.
    2011-12 - D.Rose frequently injured.

    The best offensive player D.Rose plays with constantly is Luol Deng. I think D.Rose would be more efficient offensively if he plays with Blake or Thompson while Curry and Paul plays with Deng.
    Last edited by zedrix; 07-31-2013 at 04:47 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyguy3 View Post
    Rose in no way massacred Chris Paul. He's played CP3 a total of 5 games in his career:
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...01&p2=paulch01

    During those 5 games, Rose averaged 17.6ppg 8.6apg 5.2rpg 3.6tov 2.39ast/tov
    During those 5 games, Paul averaged 18.4ppg 9.0apg 3.2rpg 2.0tov 4.5ast/tov

    Rose shot 31/77 from the field, 4/8 from three, 22/24 from the charity stripe = 42.9efg% 50.3ts%
    Paul shot 36/71 from the field, 6/10 from three, 14/17 from the charity stripe = 54.9efg% 58.6ts%

    if anything, Rose failed to slow Paul down. Just because the Bulls won all 5 games doesn't mean Rose dominated anybody. He got outplayed as a whole, as a matter of fact.
    Eh, Rose totally massacred Paul after the 09 season though.

    09:
    Rose: 9PPG, 8APG, 3TOV/game, 5RPG on 9/29 shooting.
    Paul: 22PPG, 6.5APG, 1TOV/game, 3RPG on 20/34

    After 09:
    Rose: 23.33PPG, 9APG, 3.67TOV/game on 22/48
    Paul: 16PPG, 11.33APG, 2.67TOV/game on 16/37

    And not only that, but Rose's number have gotten better pretty much every game he's been up against Paul.

    And then. He made them pancakes.

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