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  1. #1
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    As President, what would YOU do on Ukraine?

    Thought this would be a great topic.

    For me, I honestly don't know what I would do....that's why I don't envy the position Obama is in.

    If Obama does nothing about Ukraine, his response is perceived as "too weak," and his action appears too "indecisive," it might empower our adversaries all over the world to be more bold and to be more willing to defy us (namely China. China might become more assertive vs their neighbors and ignore our warnings.) The current era of world peace, partly ushered in by American dominance, might end as ambitious leaders from other countries become less afraid of an American retaliation.

    If Obama responds, what can he do? With how overextended our military is and how weak our economic recovery is, there's no way we are able to engage Russia in a direct military conflict. Russia isn't pushovers like Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya. The sacrifice in the lives of our soldiers we'll have to make in a direct military conflict with Russia, for the sake of a foreign country, won't be low like it was against Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya either. We can't rely on our European allies, because Russia is their "gas station." Our European allies aren't as strong as they once was either. Simply giving money and arms to Ukraine wouldn't do anything either because the Ukrainian military is too weak. Ukraine to Russia is Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya to us. It'll take a month at the most for Russia to crush Ukraine. And do Russia even care about economic sanctions? Unlike China, I personally think Russia is willing to sacrifice their economic well-being for "glory" and a return of Russian greatness.

    So my question to you, my fellow PSD-ers...what would YOU do if you were Obama?
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  2. #2
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    This is something I would let the EU take the lead on. And support them in whatever that is.

    This is a European issue.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    This is something I would let the EU take the lead on. And support them in whatever that is.

    This is a European issue.
    doing so, Obama risk the wrath of his political rivals. His political rivals will call him "weak" and attack him and his parties with it.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    This is something I would let the EU take the lead on. And support them in whatever that is.

    This is a European issue.
    I wouldn't even go that far. I would say that this is entirely an EU decision and that the US will not play an active role in shaping how they do their business.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I wouldn't even go that far. I would say that this is entirely an EU decision and that the US will not play an active role in shaping how they do their business.
    How? Like it or not but the USA is the security blanket for the EU. You mays well accept the fact that you have to be involved.

    For the OP, I stick a NATO force in the Ukraine and dare Russia to escalate. They won't, Putin gets put in his place, NATO comes out looking strong. Russia can keep Crimea tho since no one is going to figh a war over it.

  6. #6
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    The thing I would worry about if Obama did "nothing" is what kind of example is this going to set for other countries who you know is watching this very closely.

    I still think you have to go hard after Putin and let him know that this isn't acceptable and that we would help Ukraine with anything that they need to fight. Issuing travel bans isn't going to get the job done. In fact, Putin is issuing his own travel bans on U.S. senators and Joe Biden to copy the United States. He literally thinks the U.S. and Obama are a joke and he's mocking us now.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoCrew5 View Post
    The thing I would worry about if Obama did "nothing" is what kind of example is this going to set for other countries who you know is watching this very closely.

    I still think you have to go hard after Putin and let him know that this isn't acceptable and that we would help Ukraine with anything that they need to fight. Issuing travel bans isn't going to get the job done. In fact, Putin is issuing his own travel bans on U.S. senators and Joe Biden to copy the United States. He literally thinks the U.S. and Obama are a joke and he's mocking us now.
    So what would you do "to go hard after Putin?"

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    How? Like it or not but the USA is the security blanket for the EU. You mays well accept the fact that you have to be involved.

    For the OP, I stick a NATO force in the Ukraine and dare Russia to escalate. They won't, Putin gets put in his place, NATO comes out looking strong. Russia can keep Crimea tho since no one is going to figh a war over it.
    They will, this is in Russia and in Russia, the Russians fight. So now you're down a NATO force and you have to decide to start WW3 or just chalk up the lost NATO force to a really bad idea.

    Edit: It is a historical fact that the Russians are very protective about Mother Russia. They react almost irrationally about any threat to that motherland. On top of that, Ukraine is one of the traditional pathways that invaders have used to invade Russia. There is no chance the Russian leadership does not react emotionally to a NATO unit, especially if that unit contains German troops. They will see the unit as an invader and start shooting.
    Last edited by IndyFan; 03-18-2014 at 02:00 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoCrew5 View Post
    The thing I would worry about if Obama did "nothing" is what kind of example is this going to set for other countries who you know is watching this very closely.

    I still think you have to go hard after Putin and let him know that this isn't acceptable and that we would help Ukraine with anything that they need to fight. Issuing travel bans isn't going to get the job done. In fact, Putin is issuing his own travel bans on U.S. senators and Joe Biden to copy the United States. He literally thinks the U.S. and Obama are a joke and he's mocking us now.
    this is an insufficient response for this thread. you have to provide details...elaborate on "go hard after Putin." By "going hard after Putin," do you mean sending a SEAL team after him? Do you mean to engage in direct military conflict? Sent in a drone to assassinate him? What do you mean? And consider the consequences of the actions you take.

    And, while I agree with the need to stop Putin, we want to avoid a repeat of how World War 1 started...which is with each country trying to "one up" each other until both sides were forced into a war neither wants to participate in which escalated into a major world war.
    Last edited by FOBolous; 03-18-2014 at 02:08 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOBolous View Post
    doing so, Obama risk the wrath of his political rivals. His political rivals will call him "weak" and attack him and his parties with it.
    His political rivals will call him weak no matter what he does. Unless he starts a shooting war and then they will call him reckless.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    How? Like it or not but the USA is the security blanket for the EU. You mays well accept the fact that you have to be involved.

    For the OP, I stick a NATO force in the Ukraine and dare Russia to escalate. They won't, Putin gets put in his place, NATO comes out looking strong. Russia can keep Crimea tho since no one is going to figh a war over it.
    This could work. Seeing the resolve of NATO, Putin could blink and just be satisfied with Crimea. The problem with this is that NATO has already backed themselves into a corner. While Putin has yet to express his intention of taking the rest of the Ukraine (even tho we know he wants to...he mostly like is just testing NATO's resolve atm), NATO has already announced they don't recognize the results of the Crimea referendum and will NOT accept a Russian annexation of Crimea.

    So...a weak NATO response, or an acceptance of Russia's annexation of Crimea, shows Putin that NATO has blinked. It also might encourage our other adversaries (namely China in their territorial disputes with their neighbors) to test our resolve by being more assertive and confrontational in their own ambitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    His political rivals will call him weak no matter what he does. Unless he starts a shooting war and then they will call him reckless.
    true.
    Last edited by FOBolous; 03-18-2014 at 02:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoCrew5 View Post
    The thing I would worry about if Obama did "nothing" is what kind of example is this going to set for other countries who you know is watching this very closely.

    I still think you have to go hard after Putin and let him know that this isn't acceptable and that we would help Ukraine with anything that they need to fight. Issuing travel bans isn't going to get the job done. In fact, Putin is issuing his own travel bans on U.S. senators and Joe Biden to copy the United States. He literally thinks the U.S. and Obama are a joke and he's mocking us now.
    So? Who gives a ****. We don't have any business getting involved.

    Unless we are directly impacted/harmed, we need to stay the hell out of all conflicts. **** the chicken hawk ******** that people spew.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by db75 View Post
    So? Who gives a ****. We don't have any business getting involved.

    Unless we are directly impacted/harmed, we need to stay the hell out of all conflicts. **** the chicken hawk ******** that people spew.
    If Obama does nothing about Ukraine, it might empower our adversaries all over the world to be more bold and to be more willing to defy us (namely China. China might become more assertive vs their neighbors and ignore our warnings.) The current era of world peace, partly ushered in by American dominance, might end as ambitious leaders from other countries become less afraid of an American retaliation.

    Are you suggesting we should just let all that happen, return to pre-world war 2 policy of isolationism, and let the world burn until it's too late?
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  14. #14
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    As I'm writing in this thread, I thought of a solution. Let me know what yall think. Let Russia have Ukraine. However, while Russia solidifies its hold on Ukraine, bolster NATO military presence in all NATO countries bordering Russia along with any other countries that request NATO protection. Draw the line with Putin. Admit that yes...it's too late for us to do anything about Ukraine but his ambitions must not go beyond Ukraine. Despite losing Ukraine, it will show NATO resolve and deter our other adversaries from being to ambitious (hopefully).
    Quote Originally Posted by lol, please View Post
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    So what would you do "to go hard after Putin?"
    Cue Jeopardy music.

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