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  1. #1
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    Keying on poverty, Obama suggests high earners hit 'lottery'

    WASHINGTON -- Unless Democrats and Republicans can agree to raise taxes on the earnings of hedge-fund and private-equity managers, there is little chance the nation can make a meaningful dent in poverty, President Barack Obama said Tuesday.

    Obama, whose long-standing proposal to raise taxes on what is known as carried interest has gained little traction in Congress, said fairness demands that the nation's wealthiest pitch in as more and more Americans are falling behind.

    "If I were able to close that loophole, I'd be able to invest in early-childhood education," Obama said Tuesday. "If we can't ask from society's lottery winners to make that modest investment, then really this conversation is for show."
    http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2...ggests-high-e/

    Yup. These people just hit the "lottery" had nothing to do with the hard work and time some of them put in. It's just that they hit the "lottery"

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by WI25 View Post
    http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2...ggests-high-e/

    Yup. These people just hit the "lottery" had nothing to do with the hard work and time some of them put in. It's just that they hit the "lottery"
    The idea of raising the taxes on those who can take the hit is good, but his delivery is so piss poor for a intelligent lawyer. Enflaming your opponent's support base is always a good idea.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    The idea of raising the taxes on those who can take the hit is good, but his delivery is so piss poor for a intelligent lawyer. Enflaming your opponent's support base is always a good idea.
    I've been on a West Wing kick lately, and I think that Sam Seaborn makes the best argument for both the argument of raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans but also not attacking them for being wealthy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nzeJrXFttg
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    The idea of raising the taxes on those who can take the hit is good, but his delivery is so piss poor for a intelligent lawyer. Enflaming your opponent's support base is always a good idea.
    Just because the wealthiest people CAN pay more taxes doesn't meant they will. Saying "tax the rich" is just a platitude. It's something politicians say to garner votes.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I've been on a West Wing kick lately, and I think that Sam Seaborn makes the best argument for both the argument of raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans but also not attacking them for being wealthy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nzeJrXFttg
    Insult them while reaching into their pockets. I am just surprise, if true, he would enter a debate with such antagonistic ploy. Especially considering some of the people he is talking about are wealthy movers and shakers.
    Last edited by WES445; 05-17-2015 at 04:14 PM.

  6. #6
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    Every single politician will tell you they want to "close the loopholes" in the tax system, until you start asking them which loopholes then they are decidedly silent.
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    Just curious here as it seems to be a common narrative but why is it such a big deal to want to keep raising taxes or make sure people pay more taxes who are successful?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdood View Post
    Just curious here as it seems to be a common narrative but why is it such a big deal to want to keep raising taxes or make sure people pay more taxes who are successful?
    Because over the last 50 years they've managed to decrease the amount of taxes they pay.

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ver-time/?_r=0

    The total effective federal tax rate for the top 0.01 percent of earners that is, the top 1/10,000th of earners, a group that began at $8.6 million in annual income was 31.5 percent in 2005.

    In 1979, the first year of this C.B.O. tax data, the total federal rate for the top 0.01 percent was 42.9 percent

    As recently as 1995, it was 40.9 percent

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=161

    Capital Gains taxes was 25% in the 50/60s, went up to nearly 40% in the 70's, 28% in the 80's and has dropped from 20 to 16 to 15% in the last 10 or so years.


    So it's not so much we've run into a budget problem and just decided "hey, rich guys have money, take theirs!". It's more so we've been allowing them to give less and less and now we're in a budget crisis and nobody can understand why.

    To put it in perspective, if we decided to go back to the tax requirements of rich people that we had in Reagan's presidency, we'd be far better off and they'd be paying far more. And he was about as anti-tax the rich as they come.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WI25 View Post
    http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2...ggests-high-e/

    Yup. These people just hit the "lottery" had nothing to do with the hard work and time some of them put in. It's just that they hit the "lottery"
    "some of them" is the key phrase there. Most wealthy people are either born into it or born into a advantageous situation compared to other people where they are given better education and opportunities to get there. You'll always have the people who work their way from the bottom and the wealthy people who do honestly work hard to get there, but there is typically a luck factor involved, which is probably what he's referring to.
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  10. #10
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    Who else do the government have to get money from? Poor and the fading middle class are tap out, I don't think we can borrow more money from foreign interest. This morning Chicago, and Illinois are facing serve money problem, the type that causing the loss of the pension's cost of living adjustment, tax increase and with a republican state government, social programs are getting cut once again. We can't continue to take these hits and let one part of society to skate untouched.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Who else do the government have to get money from? Poor and the fading middle class are tap out, I don't think we can borrow more money from foreign interest. This morning Chicago, and Illinois are facing serve money problem, the type that causing the loss of the pension's cost of living adjustment, tax increase and with a republican state government, social programs are getting cut once again. We can't continue to take these hits and let one part of society to skate untouched.
    Why does the government need more tax payer money? The more spending the government does, it seems to only make things worse for the poor and middle class. The government can't even balance the budget with all our tax money and spend it wisely so what sense does it make to want to throw more money at them? Just my views and opinions...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Because over the last 50 years they've managed to decrease the amount of taxes they pay.

    http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ver-time/?_r=0

    The total effective federal tax rate for the top 0.01 percent of earners that is, the top 1/10,000th of earners, a group that began at $8.6 million in annual income was 31.5 percent in 2005.

    In 1979, the first year of this C.B.O. tax data, the total federal rate for the top 0.01 percent was 42.9 percent

    As recently as 1995, it was 40.9 percent

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=161

    Capital Gains taxes was 25% in the 50/60s, went up to nearly 40% in the 70's, 28% in the 80's and has dropped from 20 to 16 to 15% in the last 10 or so years.


    So it's not so much we've run into a budget problem and just decided "hey, rich guys have money, take theirs!". It's more so we've been allowing them to give less and less and now we're in a budget crisis and nobody can understand why.

    To put it in perspective, if we decided to go back to the tax requirements of rich people that we had in Reagan's presidency, we'd be far better off and they'd be paying far more. And he was about as anti-tax the rich as they come.
    Nice educated post. My views do differ a bit but always good to see another point of view backed with reasoning.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdood View Post
    Why does the government need more tax payer money? The more spending the government does, it seems to only make things worse for the poor and middle class. The government can't even balance the budget with all our tax money and spend it wisely so what sense does it make to want to throw more money at them? Just my views and opinions...
    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the fact that our national debt keep going up is a problem. We either cut a already strapped social programs and civil services like police, parks, FDA inspectors, or the military, or both. On the other hand, we raise taxes.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the fact that our national debt keep going up is a problem. We either cut a already strapped social programs and civil services like police, parks, FDA inspectors, or the military, or both. On the other hand, we raise taxes.
    http://fee.org/freeman/detail/most-o...vernment-waste

    Government wastes too much on BS. Raising taxes to feed more money to a broken system isn't the fix in my opinion. Spending cuts to programs like what you've pointed out is more propaganda to get the low informed people to want to raise taxes from my point of view. As you can probably tell, I'm in favor of a smaller government and less taxes, that way I can keep more of my income and not get poorer from the government taking more.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdood View Post
    http://fee.org/freeman/detail/most-o...vernment-waste

    Government wastes too much on BS. Raising taxes to feed more money to a broken system isn't the fix in my opinion. Spending cuts to programs like what you've pointed out is more propaganda to get the low informed people to want to raise taxes from my point of view. As you can probably tell, I'm in favor of a smaller government and less taxes, that way I can keep more of my income and not get poorer from the government taking more.
    Well it all depends on what you call BS, and willingness to stress out the working poor and middle class even more.

    When you say smaller government, do you mean you are willing to take cut in the police department, higher college cost with less services, and cuts to your parent or grandfolks medicare and SS?
    Last edited by WES445; 05-20-2015 at 03:16 PM.

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