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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_rock923 View Post
    In other words, you refuse to admit you were wrong about "To top it off Roosevelt never came nearly as close to sweeping the electoral college as Reagan did".

    Big deal, you said something incorrect. Own up to it and move on. This argument just makes you look desperate.
    No it doesn't, my whole argument was based on number of states carried, no president has done it since Washington, Roosevelt came two states close which he lost by a combined 60,000 whereas Reagan only lost Minnesota by 3,000. So no, by that Roosevelt never got nearly as close as Reagan.
    Last edited by Cubsrule; 02-12-2009 at 12:54 PM.




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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    And until Clinton, states like Vermont had never gone Democrat.

    So Reagan did hold some advantages as well if you're going to look at it that way.

    Honestly, demographics shift back and forth. End outcome is still the same.
    If the only advantage in demographics that Reagan got was Vermont then its really not much of an advantage.




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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    If the only advantage in demographics that Reagan got was Vermont then its really not much of an advantage.
    You're going to nitpick everything aren't you?

    NY and all of New England were reliably Republican as well.

    I chose Vermont as an example because that's generally assumed to be the most liberal state in the nation when in fact, it's voted Republican more than any single state in the nation's history.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    You're going to nitpick everything aren't you?
    Damn right

    NY and all of New England were reliably Republican as well.
    Places like New York, Maryland and Massachusettes went to Carter the election before.

    I chose Vermont as an example because that's generally assumed to be the most liberal state in the nation when in fact, it's voted Republican more than any single state in the nation's history.
    I don't know if it's still the most liberal, but it's definately up there.




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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    Damn right



    Places like New York, Maryland and Massachusettes went to Carter the election before.



    I don't know if it's still the most liberal, but it's definately up there.
    And yet they went to Nixon and Ike before that. Heck, if not for FDR and JFK being from the Northeast, I'd wager that the Dems wouldn't have won the Northeast a single time in the last century until LBJ's big blowout in 1964.
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  6. #51
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    18th Century George Washington

    19th Century Abraham Lincon

    20th century Frankin Delano Roosevelt

    21st Century Barack Obama

    Greatest President Ever Drum Roll Please Franklin D. Roosevelt

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    No it doesn't, my whole argument was based on number of states carried, no president has done it since Washington, Roosevelt came two states close which he lost by a combined 60,000 whereas Reagan only lost Minnesota by 3,000. So no, by that Roosevelt never got nearly as close as Reagan.
    Your argument wasn't about states until after you were shown to be wrong about total electors. If you're going to start counting individual voters, SmthBluCitrus already demonstrated that FDR won the popular vote by a far wider margin than Reagan.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_rock923 View Post
    Your argument wasn't about states until after you were shown to be wrong about total electors.
    I said he never came as close to sweeping the electorate, which he didn't, Reagan came within one state, how else do you measure the electorate.

    If you're going to start counting individual voters, SmthBluCitrus already demonstrated that FDR won the popular vote by a far wider margin than Reagan.
    With a favorability in demographics, Reagan did not have such advantages.




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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    And yet they went to Nixon and Ike before that. Heck, if not for FDR and JFK being from the Northeast, I'd wager that the Dems wouldn't have won the Northeast a single time in the last century until LBJ's big blowout in 1964.
    So then you really can't compare them to the South, the belief then was they would rather vote for some kind of dog than a Republican and didn't change until Ike ran in 52.




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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    I said he never came as close to sweeping the electorate, which he didn't, Reagan came within one state, how else do you measure the electorate.



    With a favorability in demographics, Reagan did not have such advantages.
    Your original post concerned quantity only. You can't just add a qualifier later and say "that's what I really meant".

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_rock923 View Post
    Your original post concerned quantity only. You can't just add a qualifier later and say "that's what I really meant".
    Here's what I said

    First off it's Reagan, and not many presidents could win a cold war, end a recession almost as bad as this, and grow the economy. To top it off Roosevelt never came nearly as close to sweeping the electoral college as Reagan did.
    I assumed everyone knew that the electoral college went by states, if not that's your problem.




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  12. #57
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    The big three as far as Presidents go are George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin D. Roosevelt.

    Washington took control of a brand new office in a brand new country and set many precedents for how things should happen. The framers were so confident in his leadership abilities that they gave the Office of the President a lot of power knowing that Washington would be the first President and that he could be trusted.

    Lincoln was revolutionary because of the way he altered the relationship between Congress and the President. Before Lincoln, Presidents rarely took bold action without the approval or consent of Congress. When Lincoln was elected and inaugurated, several states seceded from the Union and Congress wasn't scheduled to meet for several months. So Lincoln just started doing things to prepare for war. He did these things without Congressional approval, and it was groundbreaking. It dramatically changed the way President and Congress interacted from that point on.

    And FDR was also revolutionary. He saw us through the great depression and WWII, which is incredible in itself, no other President has gone through that much. When he was first elected, Americans were reeling so much that they were going to do almost anything he said, and he passed a ridiculous amount of legislation creating new government offices and administrations, including the New Deal. As a world-wartime President, he was a great face for the nation during such an important time in world history, and it really helped to continue the emergence of the United States as one of the leading World powers.

    I took a class on The Presidency at the University of Iowa taught by Cary Covington, and the class was awesome, he talks about these three Presidents quite a bit, as well as many others, and it really makes you understand the president's role and history more in depth. If you ever happen to get a chance, which I know is unlikely for most people, I'd strongly recommend listening to him or taking the class.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    Here's what I said



    I assumed everyone knew that the electoral college went by states, if not that's your problem.
    That's funny. I always thought it went by the number of electoral votes, not by the number of states. Imagine that.

    So, you claim that losing two states is not nearly as remarkable as losing one? I don't think so.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_rock923 View Post
    That's funny. I always thought it went by the number of electoral votes, not by the number of states. Imagine that.

    So, you claim that losing two states is not nearly as remarkable as losing one? I don't think so.
    Yet you get those votes by winning the state , Reagan lost Minnesota by 3,000 some odd votes, Roosevelt lost Vermont and Maine by a combined 60,000. In that sense Reagan came a lot closer than Roosevelt.




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  15. #60
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    You're really reaching in order to defend your claim -- that or you have an insanely skewed view of what "a lot" is.
    Когда́ де́ньги говоря́т, тогда́ пра́вда молчи́т

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