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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    Sure you do, I'm convinced if he told you to jump off a cliff you would.
    odd considering I do disagree with him on issues, just as I agreed with W on some. I just don;t subscribe to the fearmongering crap that rightists are spinning right now without even reading any facts.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    anyone who says obama is "releasing terrorists". that has never been said. to the contrary they will be tried and incarcerated under obama's plans. stop spinning it that closing gitmo makes us "unsafe". It's a lie being spun by rightists
    If they're not gonna be released why give them a trial, especially if they're not a US citizen?




    Major props to rdwilliamson

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    odd considering I do disagree with him on issues, just as I agreed with W on some. I just don;t subscribe to the fearmongering crap that rightists are spinning right now without even reading any facts.
    I'm curious to hear what you disagree with Obama on and agree with Bush on?




    Major props to rdwilliamson

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    I'm curious to hear what you disagree with Obama on and agree with Bush on?
    I've gone over these before.

    I agree with Bush on support for comprehensive immigration. I agreed with him on leasing ports to UAE companies, just to name a few.

    I disagree with obama on gay marriage, and cap and trade to name a few.

    Not that I need to dignify my independent thinking to someone who just regurgitates fearmongering talking points like "obama is going to release terrorists". very independent and factual.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    If they're not gonna be released why give them a trial, especially if they're not a US citizen?
    to punish accordingly. It's called justice. something in the constitution and worldwide agreements. It also eliminates criticism and recruiting rhetoric from islamists, and once it works it eliminates unfounded fearmongering during campaigns.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    to punish accordingly. It's called justice. something in the constitution and worldwide agreements. It also eliminates criticism and recruiting rhetoric from islamists, and once it works it eliminates unfounded fearmongering during campaigns.
    Yet Obama is using fearmongering to get this stimulus passed. Even though its in the constitution and part of worldwide agreements, al quada and terrorists don't abide by either, nor would they agree to either, why waste time and tax payer money if he has no plans to eventually release them.




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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    By MANSON IJAZ
    President Clinton and his national security team ignored several opportunities to capture Osama bin Laden and his terrorist associates, including one as late as last year. managed Salim's bank accounts and whose assets are frozen.

    http://www.infowars.com/saved%20page..._bin_laden.htm

    Now of course this has nothing to do with Obama and how he will or will not handle things. I am telling you once these guys sit in these security briefings alot of things can and do change.

    I may not agree with the stimulus or some of Obamas initial views on how to handle things. But I do have to believe that he does not want bad things to happen to Americans, America or it's allies.
    I looked up this Mansoor Ijaz guy and I guess all his claims were disputed by the 9-11 Commission.

    http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/r...Report_Ch4.htm

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    Yet Obama is using fearmongering to get this stimulus passed. Even though its in the constitution and part of worldwide agreements, al quada and terrorists don't abide by either, nor would they agree to either, why waste time and tax payer money if he has no plans to eventually release them.
    I heard him using facts such as the estimated loss of gdp without a stimulus. those are numbers and facts being used to support an argument. those are the numbers that help me support it. there's plenty of substance in the defense of the stimulus. you just have to read it, instead of listening to talking point blowhards.

    the USA is above al qaeda and the terrorists on the moral/standards/justice front. we are and should remain the flagbearers of what is right. lowering ourselves to a standard set by those we despise makes us just as bad. It says a lot about a person by looking at the tactics and morals they uphold during tough times. Taking the easy way out is pathetic. Conservatives trying to justify these tactics and taking the easy way out is very unamerican and disgraceful. It contradicts everything they claim to stand for, except when the going gets tough.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    I heard him using facts such as the estimated loss of gdp without a stimulus. those are numbers and facts being used to support an argument. those are the numbers that help me support it. there's plenty of substance in the defense of the stimulus. you just have to read it, instead of listening to talking point blowhards.
    And there are those that say the stimulus won't work, including a growing number of Americans, and those that disagree are using numbers and facts to dispute it.

    the USA is above al qaeda and the terrorists on the moral/standards/justice front. we are and should remain the flagbearers of what is right.
    And when we are at war we do.

    lowering ourselves to a standard set by those we despise makes us just as bad.
    If they refuse to live by the system why give it to them, and who exactly are we trying to impress?

    It says a lot about a person by looking at the tactics and morals they uphold during tough times.
    I know you're not talking about Obama, the same guy who said no lobbyists are allowed in his cabinet

    Taking the easy way out is pathetic. Conservatives trying to justify these tactics and taking the easy way out is very unamerican and disgraceful. It contradicts everything they claim to stand for, except when the going gets tough.
    What exactly is the easy way out, doing whatever necassary to keep America safe? Yeah, if a terrorist is holding information lets just interrogate him with the old good cop bad cop, I mean come on the guy who is willing to kill himself has everything to lose right




    Major props to rdwilliamson

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry34 View Post
    I looked up this Mansoor Ijaz guy and I guess all his claims were disputed by the 9-11 Commission.

    http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/r...Report_Ch4.htm
    Disputed does not mean they were false

    Find the audio where you clearly here Clinton talk about the fact Bin Laden had committed no crimes against America........even though America new he was interested in committing crimes

    Or you can watch the show ABC did called Path to 9/11 or something like that

    Several things the 9/11 report disputed later turned out to be true

    I don't have the time or patience to look all over the internet and copy and paste

    Lawrence Wright, in his Pulitzer Prize-winning "The Looming Tower," flatly states that Sudan did make such an offer. Wright bases his judgment on an interview with Erwa and notes that those who most prominently deny Erwa's claims were not in fact present for the meeting.

    Or this from a Clinton talk


    Clinton: So we tried to be quite aggressive with them [al Qaeda]. We got – well, Mr. bin Laden used to live in Sudan. He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1991, then he went to Sudan. And we'd been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start dealing with them again. They released him. At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America, so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America. So I pleaded with the Saudis to take him, 'cause they could have. But they thought it was a hot potato and they didn't and that's how he wound up in Afghanistan.
    Last edited by Randy West; 02-09-2009 at 01:04 PM.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    And there are those that say the stimulus won't work, including a growing number of Americans, and those that disagree are using numbers and facts to dispute it.



    And when we are at war we do.



    If they refuse to live by the system why give it to them, and who exactly are we trying to impress?



    I know you're not talking about Obama, the same guy who said no lobbyists are allowed in his cabinet



    What exactly is the easy way out, doing whatever necassary to keep America safe? Yeah, if a terrorist is holding information lets just interrogate him with the old good cop bad cop, I mean come on the guy who is willing to kill himself has everything to lose right
    growing number of americans? I dispute that with those pesky things called facts:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/114184/Pu...Unchanged.aspx

    the semantics and bs spin of war/declaring war are humorous coming from rightists who could probably claim Iraq and Afganistan as "wars" despite the lack of congressional declarations. keep the hypocrisy spin coming.

    keep defending a lack of morals and justice in the name of security. It makes campaigns really easy when the middle of the country knows you can have both. see nov 4 2008

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Disputed does not mean they were false

    Find the audio where you clearly here Clinton talk about the fact Bin Laden had committed no crimes against America........even though America new he was interested in committing crimes

    Or you can watch the show ABC did called Path to 9/11 or something like that

    Several things the 9/11 report disputed later turned out to be true

    I don't have the time or patience to look all over the internet and copy and paste

    Lawrence Wright, in his Pulitzer Prize-winning "The Looming Tower," flatly states that Sudan did make such an offer. Wright bases his judgment on an interview with Erwa and notes that those who most prominently deny Erwa's claims were not in fact present for the meeting.

    Or this from a Clinton talk


    Clinton: So we tried to be quite aggressive with them [al Qaeda]. We got well, Mr. bin Laden used to live in Sudan. He was expelled from Saudi Arabia in 1991, then he went to Sudan. And we'd been hearing that the Sudanese wanted America to start dealing with them again. They released him. At the time, 1996, he had committed no crime against America, so I did not bring him here because we had no basis on which to hold him, though we knew he wanted to commit crimes against America. So I pleaded with the Saudis to take him, 'cause they could have. But they thought it was a hot potato and they didn't and that's how he wound up in Afghanistan.
    I found this on the subject. Interesting read.

    http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec..._chance_1.html

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    growing number of americans? I dispute that with those pesky things called facts:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/114184/Pu...Unchanged.aspx

    the semantics and bs spin of war/declaring war are humorous coming from rightists who could probably claim Iraq and Afganistan as "wars" despite the lack of congressional declarations. keep the hypocrisy spin coming.

    keep defending a lack of morals and justice in the name of security. It makes campaigns really easy when the middle of the country knows you can have both. see nov 4 2008
    And I dispute that with pesky things called facts and the rest of your rant is humorous.




    Major props to rdwilliamson

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry34 View Post
    I found this on the subject. Interesting read.

    http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec..._chance_1.html
    I copied and pasted that same article for you earlier

    I will do it again for you

    It is here that things get murky. Erwa claims that he offered to hand bin Laden over to the United States. Key American players President Bill Clinton, then-National Security Adviser Sandy Berger and Director of Counterterrorism Richard Clarke among them have testified there were no "credible offers" to hand over bin Laden. The 9/11 Commission found "no credible evidence" that Erwa had ever made such an offer. On the other hand, Lawrence Wright, in his Pulitzer Prize-winning "The Looming Tower," flatly states that Sudan did make such an offer. Wright bases his judgment on an interview with Erwa and notes that those who most prominently deny Erwa's claims were not in fact present for the meeting.

    Plus with all the stuff I have read you have Clinton and Berger admitting as such at one point and then saying they misremembered ............well and Berger getting caught with documents down his pants and in his jacket and some of those documents just up and disappearing is kind of suspect.

    All in a day in the life of a politician I guess
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    I copied and pasted that same article for you earlier

    I will do it again for you

    It is here that things get murky. Erwa claims that he offered to hand bin Laden over to the United States. Key American players President Bill Clinton, then-National Security Adviser Sandy Berger and Director of Counterterrorism Richard Clarke among them have testified there were no "credible offers" to hand over bin Laden. The 9/11 Commission found "no credible evidence" that Erwa had ever made such an offer. On the other hand, Lawrence Wright, in his Pulitzer Prize-winning "The Looming Tower," flatly states that Sudan did make such an offer. Wright bases his judgment on an interview with Erwa and notes that those who most prominently deny Erwa's claims were not in fact present for the meeting.

    Plus with all the stuff I have read you have Clinton and Berger admitting as such at one point and then saying they misremembered ............well and Berger getting caught with documents down his pants and in his jacket and some of those documents just up and disappearing is kind of suspect.

    All in a day in the life of a politician I guess
    Yeah, I was just saying it was interesting because it seemed to sum up all the same talking points you were pointing out. I've always wondered what must have been going through some of these guys heads on 9/11. Probably like "I'm going to have to destroy some documents to cover my ***".

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