Obama signs children's health initiative into law

[Randy West]

Mo money
Mo money
Mo money

[gcoll]

And this relates to healthcare how?

It doesn't. You mentioned a caste system. We do have one. Those who have college degrees on one end, those who don't on the other.

As for college being a caste system, there's a reason it's called higher education.

It's a scam. If it were really "higher education" there wouldn't be so many stupid people hanging around.

It's a place of indoctrination, and of ripping kids off of their money while posing as a place of higher education. They also get to be the gate keepers between a good career, and a not so good career. That's bull ****.

[CuseDude87]

It's a scam. If it were really "higher education" there wouldn't be so many stupid people hanging around.

It's a place of indoctrination, and of ripping kids off of their money while posing as a place of higher education. They also get to be the gate keepers between a good career, and a not so good career. That's bull ****.

Are you saying that people should go from being "stupid" to, I suppose, "knowledgeable" just because they attended college? If so, I have news for you, friend. By the time most students get to college age, they've already decided whether or not to be open to new things.

Take Brewersin08 here. It's painfully obvious that he has mentally checked out from learning new perspectives on life, and he hasn't even graduated from high school yet! The idea that everyone who gets into college will come out with a new outlook on life is a fantasy at best. However, going to college does afford you the opportunity--if you wish to take it--to see various new worldviews that can shape the way you look at life after graduation.

You are correct, there is a lot of indoctrination involved in the college system. Your hope is to find at least one professor during your career that will help guide you through the bureaucracy and see what viewing things in perspective really means. If you never receive that guidance, then you'll end up a bitter graduate whose only goal in the world is to make a lot of money.

I agree with ink, there should be federal funding for higher education, as well. I don't believe that only people who can afford it should go. Hell, I'm paying for my entire four years from loans. I know what it is going to be like after I graduate, and it won't be easy.

[gcoll]

Are you saying that people should go from being "stupid" to, I suppose, "knowledgeable" just because they attended college?

I'm saying a couple things.

a) stupid people don't belong in college.
b) a college degree shouldn't be necessary for starting a good career, and working your way up through a company.

Take Brewersin08 here. It's painfully obvious that he has mentally checked out from learning new perspectives on life, and he hasn't even graduated from high school yet!

Well. With that condescending attitude towards people who disagree with you, college would be a great fit for you.

That's another effect college has. It imbues people with an unwarranted sense of self importance, and confidence in their intellectual ability.

The idea that everyone who gets into college will come out with a new outlook on life is a fantasy at best

I don't give a **** about new world views, or "opening up minds" or "new experiences"...that's just a bunch of hippy liberal bull ****.

You are correct, there is a lot of indoctrination involved in the college system. Your hope is to find at least one professor during your career that will help guide you through the bureaucracy and see what viewing things in perspective really means.

Which is indoctrination. Which is wrong. Which does not belong in a place that is supposed to be about education.

If you never receive that guidance, then you'll end up a bitter graduate whose only goal in the world is to make a lot of money.

I do not need guidance.

[CuseDude87]

I'm saying a couple things.

a) stupid people don't belong in college.
b) a college degree shouldn't be necessary for starting a good career, and working your way up through a company.


Well. With that condescending attitude towards people who disagree with you, college would be a great fit for you.

That's another effect college has. It imbues people with an unwarranted sense of self importance, and confidence in their intellectual ability.


I don't give a **** about new world views, or "opening up minds" or "new experiences"...that's just a bunch of hippy liberal bull ****.


Which is indoctrination. Which is wrong. Which does not belong in a place that is supposed to be about education.


I do not need guidance.

Case in point.

[ink]

Case in point.

In terms of basic brain development, exposure to new world views is probably the best exercise you could ever ask for.

I've had my eyes opened to lots of Republican thinking here in the Obama forum. It doesn't mean I have to agree, but it helps me understand the obstacles that have to be overcome and the beliefs that counter my own. IMO this is all CuseDude is asking for.

[PHX-SOXFAN]

Case in point.

stubbornness is sad. so is thinking that educating yourself and experiencing alternative philosophies and cultures is liberal hippy bs. damn that learning and education it just makes people smarter and more tolerant and hurts the size of the conservative voting block.

[CuseDude87]

In terms of basic brain development, exposure to new world views is probably the best exercise you could ever ask for.

I've had my eyes opened to lots of Republican thinking here in the Obama forum. It doesn't mean I have to agree, but it helps me understand the obstacles that have to be overcome and the beliefs that counter my own. IMO this is all CuseDude is asking for.

Yes, it is. It gives you perspective on how others see the world, and it reminds you that your culture is not the only (or correct) way to see the world.

stubbornness is sad. so is thinking that educating yourself and experiencing alternative philosophies and cultures is liberal hippy bs. damn that learning and education it just makes people smarter and more tolerant and hurts the size of the conservative voting block.

At first, I thought your post was criticizing me. After re-reading it though, I understand the point you were making.

While it is true that the higher education system is flawed in its attempts to "weed out" those it does not deem "intelligent enough," staying within your geographical bubble will not help things either. At no point did I say someone couldn't gain the same insights into different perspectives of the world by traveling abroad and speaking to the local communities.

[gcoll]

Case in point.

Please do not patronize me.

In terms of basic brain development, exposure to new world views is probably the best exercise you could ever ask for.

I get exposed to "new world views" through reading the work of great authors. Through reading the words of philosophers. Through watching the films of great directors.

I don't care what some girl with orange skin thinks about Socrates.

so is thinking that educating yourself and experiencing alternative philosophies and cultures is liberal hippy bs

That's not really what I meant to say.

College has turned those concepts into meaningless talking points. Like "diversity". I will say "**** diversity". But I don't mean "**** the concept of diversity" I mean "**** the talking point diversity" because it's meaningless in the context that it is used. That is what I mean about "hippy liberal bs".

damn that learning and education it just makes people smarter and more tolerant and hurts the size of the conservative voting block

"Tolerance" is another one.

Yes, it is. It gives you perspective on how others see the world, and it reminds you that your culture is not the only (or correct) way to see the world.

Kind of.

For example. If you want to criticize Christianity.....it's fine. You can have a nice little debate. Sometimes it gets heated. But often times it's done under the facade that we are participating in some kind of interesting, scholarly exercise.

Criticize Islam and watch how fast they call it hate speech. Why? Because you need to be "tolerant". Because you need to "be open to different ideas", you need to "appreciate diversity", you need to learn that "your culture isn't the only way to view the world". Get what I'm saying?

While it is true that the higher education system is flawed in its attempts to "weed out" those it does not deem "intelligent enough,"

Because it's goal is not to be a place of higher education. It's goal is to make money, and to indoctrinate people. That's the purpose it serves. That's what it does.

It robs the people who don't take higher education seriously, and wastes the time of those that do.

[Brewersin08]

Are you saying that people should go from being "stupid" to, I suppose, "knowledgeable" just because they attended college? If so, I have news for you, friend. By the time most students get to college age, they've already decided whether or not to be open to new things.

Take Brewersin08 here. It's painfully obvious that he has mentally checked out from learning new perspectives on life, and he hasn't even graduated from high school yet! The idea that everyone who gets into college will come out with a new outlook on life is a fantasy at best. However, going to college does afford you the opportunity--if you wish to take it--to see various new worldviews that can shape the way you look at life after graduation.

You are correct, there is a lot of indoctrination involved in the college system. Your hope is to find at least one professor during your career that will help guide you through the bureaucracy and see what viewing things in perspective really means. If you never receive that guidance, then you'll end up a bitter graduate whose only goal in the world is to make a lot of money.
I agree with ink, there should be federal funding for higher education, as well. I don't believe that only people who can afford it should go. Hell, I'm paying for my entire four years from loans. I know what it is going to be like after I graduate, and it won't be easy.

I love how liberals say that people need to be more tolerant of other cultures. They are tolerant of everyone but themselves. If you disagree with them they think you are a biggot. I'm proud of my culture and heritage. Stop with the white guilt. I honestly think liberals hate themselves because they are white, and wish they were a minority. Also, I'm not bitter, I just want to see the government stay out of people's lives. Let people fail. People have this attitude that we need the government to look out for us. Take Chris Gardner (Pursuit of Happiness), he become the head of a huge stock brokerage firm after being homeless. I know you're going to say that this is an isolated situation and not truly representative of what really happens, but I think that if people do actually try, they can make something out of their lives without the help of the government, and if they aren't willing to try, **** them.

[ink]

... if people do actually try, they can make something out of their lives without the help of the government, and if they aren't willing to try, **** them.

And if they try and succeed, then get sideswiped by an economic crash, a traffic accident, or a prolonged and expensive illness **** them then too. In fact, why even give them a chance as children right? Just working through the though process ...

[gcoll]

And if they try and succeed, then get sideswiped by an economic crash, a traffic accident, or a prolonged and expensive illness **** them then too. In fact, why even give them a chance as children right? Just working through the though process ...

The thought process is that "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have".

And yes, I realize how annoying the use of quotes can be, but **** it.

*note. I'm not arguing for or against the expansion of S-Chip. I'm just trying to relay to you guys the conservative thought process. A lot of times the liberals paint it as "hating the poor" or something like that. It's not the case. Why would I hate the poor? I never had health insurance when I was a kid.

[ink]

The thought process is that "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have".

And yes, I realize how annoying the use of quotes can be, but **** it.

*note. I'm not arguing for or against the expansion of S-Chip. I'm just trying to relay to you guys the conservative thought process. A lot of times the liberals paint it as "hating the poor" or something like that. It's not the case. Why would I hate the poor? I never had health insurance when I was a kid.

I understand what you're saying. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. The point I'm making is that Social Darwinism isn't very persuasive if one is trying to make converts. Too many completely innocent people suffer unjustly and that is why the passionate drive for health coverage for children.

[CuseDude87]

Please do not patronize me.

And this isn't patronizing?
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V

that's just a bunch of hippy liberal bull ****.

Of course it is. It goes both ways.

I get exposed to "new world views" through reading the work of great authors. Through reading the words of philosophers. Through watching the films of great directors.

You do know that this is what also occurs in college, right?

I don't care what some girl with orange skin thinks about Socrates.

I hope you can look at this statement and see how you're missing my point entirely.

College has turned those concepts into meaningless talking points. Like "diversity". I will say "**** diversity". But I don't mean "**** the concept of diversity" I mean "**** the talking point diversity" because it's meaningless in the context that it is used. That is what I mean about "hippy liberal bs".

While some of what you say is certainly valid--especially the diversity part--your tone implies bitterness. To me, it seems that you either a) didn't go to college, or b) had a terrible experience in college. Which is it?

Kind of.

For example. If you want to criticize Christianity.....it's fine. You can have a nice little debate. Sometimes it gets heated. But often times it's done under the facade that we are participating in some kind of interesting, scholarly exercise.

Criticize Islam and watch how fast they call it hate speech. Why? Because you need to be "tolerant". Because you need to "be open to different ideas", you need to "appreciate diversity", you need to learn that "your culture isn't the only way to view the world". Get what I'm saying?

I'm not sure at what venue you are talking about criticizing Christianity or Islam, but if you do it in a college classroom and actually bring up valid points, no professor is going to crucify you (pun intended) and call it hate speech.

Also, I never said a thing about "tolerance."

Because it's goal is not to be a place of higher education. It's goal is to make money, and to indoctrinate people. That's the purpose it serves. That's what it does.

It robs the people who don't take higher education seriously, and wastes the time of those that do.

I think that your first paragraph is a very narcissistic way of viewing the college system. Sure, the university wants to make money. Indoctrinate? Maybe. Is that their only, undying goal? Certainly not.

I would also like ask why you feel it is okay for a business corporation to have the goal of making money but not the university. Seems to be a double standard, no?

I love how liberals say that people need to be more tolerant of other cultures. They are tolerant of everyone but themselves.

Again, I never said anything about being "tolerant."

If you disagree with them they think you are a biggot.

Not true.

I'm proud of my culture and heritage.

Good for you. You aren't the only one.

Stop with the white guilt. I honestly think liberals hate themselves because they are white, and wish they were a minority.

The "white guilt," eh? At what point did I tell you to give all of your money to blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Native Americans, and/or Other? Hmm? Please, tell me.

You know what I honestly think? I honestly think white liberals wish they could share the privileges they possess (based solely on the lottery of birth to white parents, by the way) with those who face institutionalized racism every day of their lives. And I honestly think white conservatives could give a damn.

Also, I'm not bitter, I just want to see the government stay out of people's lives. Let people fail.

You certainly have no reason to be bitter. You were born into the higher class, according to our society. You live every day with the privileges of being a white male. You face no type of discrimination, no matter what you do. You have more of an opportunity to make something of yourself than most people in the world could dream of. And when someone or something requests a bit of reciprocation that will not cause you irreparable harm in the long run, you balk. That sounds humane.

People have this attitude that we need the government to look out for us.

You are speaking from the privileged majority. Try to keep that in mind.

Take Chris Gardner (Pursuit of Happiness), he become the head of a huge stock brokerage firm after being homeless.

Okay, fair enough. Let's see where this goes.

I know you're going to say that this is an isolated situation and not truly representative of what really happens, but I think that if people do actually try, they can make something out of their lives without the help of the government,

No, you're right. This is truly representative of what happens. Now, I want you to try. Become the head of a huge stock brokerage firm in 30 years. Oh wait, you have to go live on the streets for a while first. If you're not head of that huge firm by the time 2039 rolls around, here's what I can say:

and if they aren't willing to try, **** them.

"I guess you weren't willing to try. Sorry."

[gcoll]

We've wandered off topic.

Back to S-Chip.