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  1. #1
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    Obama plans to shut down Gitmo very quickly into his administration

    I'm not sure if there is a thread for this but here we go.

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President-elect Barack Obama plans to close the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay as early as his first week in office to show a break from the Bush administration's approach to the war on terror, according to two officials close to the transition.

    One of the officials said it would be in keeping with Obama's campaign promise to shut down the prison through executive order, a move which was also pushed by last year's Republican presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona.

    "The president-elect has repeatedly said the legal framework at Gitmo has failed to successfully and swiftly prosecute terrorists," said one of the officials close to the transition, who was not authorized to speak publicly about private deliberations.

    Such a move would reassure those concerned after Obama's recent public comments suggested he may not immediately shut the prison down.

    "It is more difficult than I think a lot of people realize and we are going to get it done, but part of the challenge that you have is that you have a bunch of folks that have been detained, many of whom who may be very dangerous who have not been put on trial or have not gone through some adjudication," Obama said on ABC's "This Week" on Sunday when asked whether he would close the prison in his first 100 days.

    Obama also said he was trying to develop a process that "adheres to rule of law" but "doesn't result in releasing people who are intent on blowing us up."

    "I think it's going to take some time and our legal teams are working in consultation with our national security apparatus as we speak, to help design exactly what we need to do," Obama said.

    "But I don't want to be ambiguous about this. We are going to close Guantanamo and we are going to make sure that the procedures we set up are ones that abide by our Constitution," he said.

    The military prison at Guantanamo Bay is a major issue because for critics of the Bush administration, it has become a symbol of mismanagement and overreach in the war on terror.

    At his final White House press conference on Monday, President Bush was asked whether the military prison and harsh interrogation tactics have damaged America's standing in the world.

    "I strongly disagree with the assessment that our moral standing has been damaged," Bush said. "It may be damaged amongst some of the elite. But people still understand America stands for freedom; that America is a country that provides such great hope."
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/...tmo/index.html


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  2. #2
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    A very good first step on the road to becoming the people that Constitution says we are. We can reclaim our position in the world as a nation of laws.

  3. #3
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    I've read a few articles on what it might take, logistically, to close Guantanamo. It's an amazingly difficult and complicated process. But well worth it, as it's the right thing to do for America to be the country it needs to be (a protector rather than a violator of human rights) as well as for America's image around the world. And most importantly, it makes the world safer, too. I don't know how such things are measured (I assume Gallup doesn't poll terrorists), but I've seen Gitmo variably described as "one of the most effective" or "the most effective" recruitment tool for Al Qaeda.
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  4. #4
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    Gitmo won't be shut down quickly, and certainly not in the first week. What do you do with the prisoners, what happens to the ones that are actually murderers compared with the alleged innocents, and what happens to those who will be killed if sent back to their homelands?

    If Obama wants to do this the correct way to ensure maximum safety for the country, the prisoners, and the legal system, it's going to take more than a week. Especially considering its lack of importance compared to our economy.
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  5. #5
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    I think I might be able to offer a unique prospective on Gitmo. I mainly post in the NBA fourm but this caught my eye.

    I'm in the United States Navy, I'm a Master at Arms (MP) and I've served corrections at the Gitmo.

    I served a sixth month IA (Individual Augmentee) in Cuba.

    I will briefly speak on the so called "Human Rights Violations".

    The Prisoners at Gitmo are treated with respect, given three meals a day, and thier religous views are respected.

    I cannot say as much for my brothers and sisters who have gone MIA in hostile areas of operation including Iraq and Afganistan.

    Gitmo may be a public relations nightmare, but it and facilites like it are vital in the war on terror.

    Obama may say he will close Gitmo, but the second Gitmo closes another place like it will pop up, and after the public relations nightmare that gitmo caused I would'nt expect it to be as public, less public means less oversight, meaning that it may be the oppiste of what you are hoping the closing will be.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocUSN View Post
    I think I might be able to offer a unique prospective on Gitmo. I mainly post in the NBA fourm but this caught my eye.

    I'm in the United States Navy, I'm a Master at Arms (MP) and I've served corrections at the Gitmo.

    I served a sixth month IA (Individual Augmentee) in Cuba.

    I will briefly speak on the so called "Human Rights Violations".

    The Prisoners at Gitmo are treated with respect, given three meals a day, and thier religous views are respected.

    I cannot say as much for my brothers and sisters who have gone MIA in hostile areas of operation including Iraq and Afganistan.

    Gitmo may be a public relations nightmare, but it and facilites like it are vital in the war on terror.

    Obama may say he will close Gitmo, but the second Gitmo closes another place like it will pop up, and after the public relations nightmare that gitmo caused I would'nt expect it to be as public, less public means less oversight, meaning that it may be the oppiste of what you are hoping the closing will be.
    Far be it from me to question your experience, because I have no idea what military service must be like. But the problem that I see with what you've written is that Bush administration officials, including Dick Cheney himself, have already admitted to sanctioning the use of torture in interrogations of suspected terrorists, including interrogations that took place at Gitmo. I do believe what you're saying to the extent that in the day to day operations of the place, the prisoners are essentially treated respectfully, but I think there's plenty of evidence to prove at this point that human rights violations and torture have in fact taken place there.

    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Gitmo won't be shut down quickly, and certainly not in the first week. What do you do with the prisoners, what happens to the ones that are actually murderers compared with the alleged innocents, and what happens to those who will be killed if sent back to their homelands?

    If Obama wants to do this the correct way to ensure maximum safety for the country, the prisoners, and the legal system, it's going to take more than a week. Especially considering its lack of importance compared to our economy.
    I agree that it should take a lot of time, from what I've read it looks to be a very complicated process. But the process could be initiated in the first week in the form of an executive order saying it must be shut down, but not necessarily saying that happens overnight.
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  7. #7
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    I don't really want to hear that he plans to "shut it down", or whatever.

    I'd rather hear his thoughts on what to do with the prisoners there.

    If he decides that these people need a trial. Can't we try them, and if found guilty...back to Gitmo?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    I don't really want to hear that he plans to "shut it down", or whatever.

    I'd rather hear his thoughts on what to do with the prisoners there.

    If he decides that these people need a trial. Can't we try them, and if found guilty...back to Gitmo?
    No. The fundamental problem with Gitmo is that it was established specifically for the purpose of dodging the Constitution. It's the foreign tax shelter of prisons, except that instead of avoiding financial obligations, it avoids obligations to observe human rights protected under the Constitution. That's why it has to be shut down - it's a flawed concept from the ground up.
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  9. #9
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    I really thought, after he said he'd go back on some of his campaign promises temp because the economy, that this would be one.

    Then I read about preparing an executive order yesterday. Def will take quite a bit of time. Another thing, we have no room at all in our prison's in the US. So it will be a logistical nightmare, and severly slow the process up.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Far be it from me to question your experience, because I have no idea what military service must be like. But the problem that I see with what you've written is that Bush administration officials, including Dick Cheney himself, have already admitted to sanctioning the use of torture in interrogations of suspected terrorists, including interrogations that took place at Gitmo. I do believe what you're saying to the extent that in the day to day operations of the place, the prisoners are essentially treated respectfully, but I think there's plenty of evidence to prove at this point that human rights violations and torture have in fact taken place there.



    I agree that it should take a lot of time, from what I've read it looks to be a very complicated process. But the process could be initiated in the first week in the form of an executive order saying it must be shut down, but not necessarily saying that happens overnight.
    Agreed, I cannot acount for what has happend 100% of the time during the operation of the detention center.

    And all I'm saying is that if the President elect closes Gitmo, another detention center will open out side of the public scope and that will not be a good thing for the prisoners. The President elect may close gitmo to look good in the public eye but there is no way that all of those prisoners either A. Go free, or B. are shipped to the US for trial.

    I agree that the unlawful detention of non combatants has taken place.
    I agree that the system needs to be changed.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Gitmo won't be shut down quickly, and certainly not in the first week. What do you do with the prisoners, what happens to the ones that are actually murderers compared with the alleged innocents, and what happens to those who will be killed if sent back to their homelands?

    If Obama wants to do this the correct way to ensure maximum safety for the country, the prisoners, and the legal system, it's going to take more than a week. Especially considering its lack of importance compared to our economy.
    Exactly. I definitely want to see it closed ASAP. But the problem thus far has been that nobody wants to take the prisoners from us.

    Ultimately, what will happen is that the prisoners will get charged with crimes against the US or be released back to their home countries. Those charged will face US court hearings and likely be sentenced shortly after.
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  12. #12
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    What strikes me is that I, as a citizen, believe in my country and its institutions. I, as a citizen believe that my country is capable of finding the evil people who would do us harm, lawfully arrest them, put them on trial, find them guilty, and then, in the end punish them in accordance with the Constitution of the United States.

    When I hear/read of people saying that we need these extra legal means, such as torture, and/or prisons that were set up to bypass the Constitution of my country, I find this to be the most insidious form of conduct possible.

    The people who create these things are in my eyes, if not the eyes of the law, guilty of traitorous conduct. They have deliberately gone beyond the basis of my country.

    If one does not believe in the principles of the Constitution of the United States, then do not use my flag as your defense, because you do not believe in what that flag stands for. I stand second to none in my patriotism, my belief in what the founding fathers created, and find it truly offensive when bloviation stands up for extra legal activities. Either one believes in our principles or one does not.

    I want to underline that this post is all about our leaders and those who would in defense of liberty advocate its cessation, those who would in defense of our way of life, violate our way of life, those who would in the name of preserving our nation and what it stands for , destroy it.

  13. #13
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    Here's an interview of a former Gitmo guard, his eyewitness account of what he saw there.

    In both symbolic and literal terms, the prison at Guantanamo Bay is a living manifestation of America being un-American. It needs to be shut down for our safety and security so terrorists can no longer use its symbolism against us, and it also needs to be shut down just so we can re-direct our moral compass towards the right direction.
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  14. #14
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    13 posts in favor of closing Gitmo, and not one sentence about where Gitmo's inmates go. Anyone want to answer that one, or do we just relax in the comfortable Bash Bush fest?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    13 posts in favor of closing Gitmo, and not one sentence about where Gitmo's inmates go. Anyone want to answer that one, or do we just relax in the comfortable Bash Bush fest?
    I think your characterization of the posts from those of us in support of closing Guantanamo is overly simplistic and inaccurate. Nobody is saying it will be easy. Nobody thinks it will happen overnight. Nobody wants to just dump people out onto the streets. Trials. Justice. Convictions for those who are proven guilty. Release to their home countries for those who are not. Due process for all of them, with respect for their human rights. That's what I want.
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