Round 6 NWA Vs BoneThugs N Harmony

[Sooper]

So it would be safe to say when NWA was in their prime and having a huge effect on the landscape of music you were still in diapers? I lived through that generation and all people talked about was NWA, whether they were people that listened to rap or not. Also, all those early 90's bands that have a career because of what NWA did will say without flinching that if it wasn't for NWA they would have never had a career. NWA and PE opened the doors for rap acts that weren't making music for people to dance too. Like I said, I like the Wu but they have never changed the landscape of music the way NWA did. Thats why I say they are more influential. Its easy to argue it if you didn't live during the generation where it all happened.

I agree 100%, most of these kids talk **** but didn't live through the generation.

[GregOden#1]

So it would be safe to say when NWA was in their prime and having a huge effect on the landscape of music you were still in diapers? I lived through that generation and all people talked about was NWA, whether they were people that listened to rap or not. Also, all those early 90's bands that have a career because of what NWA did will say without flinching that if it wasn't for NWA they would have never had a career. NWA and PE opened the doors for rap acts that weren't making music for people to dance too. Like I said, I like the Wu but they have never changed the landscape of music the way NWA did. Thats why I say they are more influential. Its easy to argue it if you didn't live during the generation where it all happened.

Not really. NWA was just running with what Schoolly D and Ice-T were doing a years prior. They werent inovators, they were just the first guys to have commercial success to match the critical success that those other guys got. Nobody said they werent influential, but Wu-Tang took an entire coast on its back and resurrected it, they defined mid 90's East coast hip hop, NWA never created an entire genre like the Wu did. If its strictly what NWA did as a group vs. the Wu-Tang, there's no contest that the Wu-Tang wins on a critical/influential level, its only when you add in Dr. Dre (sorta) creating G-Funk and Ice Cube's solo records that NWA's umbrella brings it closer to the Wu-Tang's.

You can bring up my age all you want, but you're the one whose biased. You arent a Wu-Tang fan, you may not admit it but you yourself said that the Wu-Tang solo records, apart from Liquid Swords, were "hit or miss", I doubt you'll find a professional reviewer that agrees with you. Since you arent a fan you cant compare them to others, I on the other hand am a big fan of both groups, and I say the Wu is better. That doesn't mean I'm right, I never said it wasn't debatable, but it does mean my opinion is worth more than yours when it comes to these two groups.

[BigSteve]

Not really. NWA was just running with what Schoolly D and Ice-T were doing a years prior. They werent inovators, they were just the first guys to have commercial success to match the critical success that those other guys got. Nobody said they werent influential, but Wu-Tang took an entire coast on its back and resurrected it, they defined mid 90's East coast hip hop, NWA never created an entire genre like the Wu did. If its strictly what NWA did as a group vs. the Wu-Tang, there's no contest that the Wu-Tang wins on a critical/influential level, its only when you add in Dr. Dre (sorta) creating G-Funk and Ice Cube's solo records that NWA's umbrella brings it closer to the Wu-Tang's.

You can bring up my age all you want, but you're the one whose biased. You arent a Wu-Tang fan, you may not admit it but you yourself said that the Wu-Tang solo records, apart from Liquid Swords, were "hit or miss", I doubt you'll find a professional reviewer that agrees with you. Since you arent a fan you cant compare them to others, I on the other hand am a big fan of both groups, and I say the Wu is better. That doesn't mean I'm right, I never said it wasn't debatable, but it does mean my opinion is worth more than yours when it comes to these two groups.

I'm going to ignore that quote because if I don't it will start a major arguement. The Wu never has, and never will be as influential as NWA was in their prime. I am not talking about the NWA after Ice Cube left. I am talking about the group in its "prime." That means Ice Cube's solo albums because he was the primary lyricist for the band, and Dre's solo albums because he was the primary producer. The bands solo albums have more weight when you discuss NWA because they did so little as a band. I will readily admit that the Wu are a top 10 rap group, possibly even top 5. That said, unless you were from New York in the mid 90's it was debatable that they were even the best band of their era. You can say all the things you want based off what you have read happened back then. I can say it from first hand expierence because I lived during that generation. If you really want me to waste my time and start searching I am sure I can find as many negative Wu reviews as you can find positive. One thing that is not debated among reviewers is that NWA is one of the main influences on a generation of rap that includes the Wu Tang Clan. We might as well as agree to disagree because I can't find the point in your logic. Nobody debates NWA's legacy, a portion of reviewers debate the Wu's. It doesn't mean they were not great, it just means they don't have the cred that NWA does.

Edit: Oh, and one more thing. How does your opinion carry more weight when you are telling me about things you have read in magazines when I lived it? Doesn't seem like it makes sense does it?

[GregOden#1]

I'm going to ignore that quote because if I don't it will start a major arguement.

Why? My opinion does matter more. You woudn't ask a guy who doesn't like the Beatles to name you their best albums so why would you ask a guy who doesn't like the Wu-Tang to compare them to another group? It'd be like asking you to compare jazz music to funk music, you dont listen to either so how the hell are you going to tell me which is better?

The Wu never has, and never will be as influential as NWA was in their prime. I am not talking about the NWA after Ice Cube left. I am talking about the group in its "prime." That means Ice Cube's solo albums because he was the primary lyricist for the band, and Dre's solo albums because he was the primary producer. The bands solo albums have more weight when you discuss NWA because they did so little as a band. I will readily admit that the Wu are a top 10 rap group, possibly even top 5. That said, unless you were from New York in the mid 90's it was debatable that they were even the best band of their era.

Um...and that doesn't hold true for NWA? Straight Out of Compton isn't even a consensus top 5 album of 1988, how can you apply that logic to the Wu and ignore it for NWA?

You can say all the things you want based off what you have read happened back then. I can say it from first hand expierence because I lived during that generation. If you really want me to waste my time and start searching I am sure I can find as many negative Wu reviews as you can find positive.

Go ahead.

One thing that is not debated among reviewers is that NWA is one of the main influences on a generation of rap that includes the Wu Tang Clan.

So because they came before means they're better?

We might as well as agree to disagree because I can't find the point in your logic. Nobody debates NWA's legacy, a portion of reviewers debate the Wu's. It doesn't mean they were not great, it just means they don't have the cred that NWA does.

Check OBFCL's wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Only_Built_4_Cuban_Linx..., doesn't seem like many are debating OBFCL's "cred". Check Enter the Wu-Tang's, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enter_the_Wu. I dont see many reviewers "debating" the "legacy" of the Wu-Tang. I'm not saying Wu-Tang is for everybody, but dont act like NWA doesn't have its critics. They were heavily criticized by rap purists when they came out and well into the 90s.

Edit: Oh, and one more thing. How does your opinion carry more weight when you are telling me about things you have read in magazines when I lived it? Doesn't seem like it makes sense does it?

Why would your opinion matter more?

[CHief_0_o_Wahoo]

I'm going to ignore that quote because if I don't it will start a major arguement. The Wu never has, and never will be as influential as NWA was in their prime. I am not talking about the NWA after Ice Cube left. I am talking about the group in its "prime." That means Ice Cube's solo albums because he was the primary lyricist for the band, and Dre's solo albums because he was the primary producer. The bands solo albums have more weight when you discuss NWA because they did so little as a band. I will readily admit that the Wu are a top 10 rap group, possibly even top 5. That said, unless you were from New York in the mid 90's it was debatable that they were even the best band of their era. You can say all the things you want based off what you have read happened back then. I can say it from first hand expierence because I lived during that generation. If you really want me to waste my time and start searching I am sure I can find as many negative Wu reviews as you can find positive. One thing that is not debated among reviewers is that NWA is one of the main influences on a generation of rap that includes the Wu Tang Clan. We might as well as agree to disagree because I can't find the point in your logic. Nobody debates NWA's legacy, a portion of reviewers debate the Wu's. It doesn't mean they were not great, it just means they don't have the cred that NWA does.

Edit: Oh, and one more thing. How does your opinion carry more weight when you are telling me about things you have read in magazines when I lived it? Doesn't seem like it makes sense does it?

I am with you and Sooper on this one. First hand accounts are always more creditable.

[29$JerZ]

N.W.A for me, I wasn't even born when they were in their prime but I know they were influential in their prime.

[BigSteve]

Why? My opinion does matter more. You woudn't ask a guy who doesn't like the Beatles to name you their best albums so why would you ask a guy who doesn't like the Wu-Tang to compare them to another group? It'd be like asking you to compare jazz music to funk music, you dont listen to either so how the hell are you going to tell me which is better?

Not quite sure why you keep insisting I don't like the band. I was listening to them back before you even knew what rap was. Like I said before and I will say again, I like the Wu but they are in my opinion not the best rap band. Are you saying its not possible to like them if they are not a band you considered to be the greatest ever? Your opinion holds no weight because all your doing is regurgitating things you've read in magazines over the years.

Um...and that doesn't hold true for NWA? Straight Out of Compton isn't even a consensus top 5 album of 1988, how can you apply that logic to the Wu and ignore it for NWA?

Yet when rappers and reviewers are asked about it today they list it as one of the most influential albums ever. The reason it wasn't ranked higher in its time is because people didn't quite no what to make of it. Truth is it was a violent album made up of young black men talking about the things they see on a everyday basis in the hood. The honest to God truth is it scared alot of people that lived in suburbia to be given a glimpse into the ghettos that they had never seen.

Go ahead.

The worst thing is this arguement is so dumb I actually thought about it, but decided why. You can read any rap magazine, or ask any rapper and they will confirm that NWA's legacy is carved in stone. Some might say the same about the Wu, but not nearly as many.

So because they came before means they're better?

Actually, thats exactly what it means. NWA kicked down the doors and gave bands like the Wu a blueprint so that they could have a voice. Whats more impressive? A band who breaks barriers years earlier and makes a album that no radio station of record label wants to touch, but goes on to be an absolute classic. Or a band who follows suit of what was done by other bands before them and puts out an album into a popular form of media. NWA were pioneers. They completely turned their back on everything record labels and radio considered acceptable, and made something that came from their hearts. The Wu was a great band who put out albums when it was commercially acceptable to do so. They were good albums, but they were not ground breaking.

Check OBFCL's wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Only_Built_4_Cuban_Linx..., doesn't seem like many are debating OBFCL's "cred". Check Enter the Wu-Tang's, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enter_the_Wu. I dont see many reviewers "debating" the "legacy" of the Wu-Tang. I'm not saying Wu-Tang is for everybody, but dont act like NWA doesn't have its critics. They were heavily criticized by rap purists when they came out and well into the 90s.

Of course NWA had its critics. The greatest bands in any genre always do. For God's sake the Beatles still have critics to this day. I'm not saying the Wu has no legacy like you keep implying, I am saying it is not as great as NWA's.

Why would your opinion matter more?

I never claimed my opinion mattered more. You claimed yours did. We each have our own opinion. This became in arguement when you insisted you have more knowledge about something you didn't live through than someone who did. Just cause you read a book on a war doesn't mean you know more about it than a veteran. If you want you can throw together another post where you say I'm not a Wu fan, even though I have told you on multiple occasions in this arguement that I am. Just because someone doesn't think they are the greatest ever, doesn't mean they don't like them.

[ryanph30]

Nwa.

[GregOden#1]

Not quite sure why you keep insisting I don't like the band. I was listening to them back before you even knew what rap was. Like I said before and I will say again, I like the Wu but they are in my opinion not the best rap band. Are you saying its not possible to like them if they are not a band you considered to be the greatest ever? Your opinion holds no weight because all your doing is regurgitating things you've read in magazines over the years.

No your opinion doesn't hold any weight because you dont like the Wu-Tang clan, YOU said yourself you think all their solo albums other than Liquid Swords are hit and miss, and that opinion is not shared by anybody who likes the Wu-Tang clan, regardless of wether or not they think they are the greatest.

Yet when rappers and reviewers are asked about it today they list it as one of the most influential albums ever. The reason it wasn't ranked higher in its time is because people didn't quite no what to make of it. Truth is it was a violent album made up of young black men talking about the things they see on a everyday basis in the hood. The honest to God truth is it scared alot of people that lived in suburbia to be given a glimpse into the ghettos that they had never seen.

The album isn't ranked that high now. You could argue it wasn't even top 5-10 of 1988.

And Rolling Stone gave it 5 stars, I REALLY doubt

The worst thing is this arguement is so dumb I actually thought about it, but decided why. You can read any rap magazine, or ask any rapper and they will confirm that NWA's legacy is carved in stone. Some might say the same about the Wu, but not nearly as many.

Oh ok so your biased opinion about something you cant quantify should be proof enough for me and everyone else who likes the Wu-Tang Clan (and according to you we are a minority) that we overrated the Wu. Great argument

Actually, thats exactly what it means. NWA kicked down the doors and gave bands like the Wu a blueprint so that they could have a voice. Whats more impressive? A band who breaks barriers years earlier and makes a album that no radio station of record label wants to touch, but goes on to be an absolute classic. Or a band who follows suit of what was done by other bands before them and puts out an album into a popular form of media. NWA were pioneers. They completely turned their back on everything record labels and radio considered acceptable, and made something that came from their hearts. The Wu was a great band who put out albums when it was commercially acceptable to do so. They were good albums, but they were not ground breaking.

NWA didn't break barriers. They sold alot. Schoolly D and Ice-T were gangster rappers and they came out before NWA did, only difference is NWA brought it mainstream. According to you Schoolly D and Ice-T should be higher on the list than NWA.

And the Wu-Tang Clan didn't break barriers? East coast rap had like 3 rap groups that were popular then, Onyx, Das EFX and A Tribe Called Quest. After the Wu-Tang Clan came out the East Coast was relevent again, and the Wu-Tang didn't go against conventional methods of making music??? Have you ever heard a Wu-Tang Clan album?

Of course NWA had its critics. The greatest bands in any genre always do. For God's sake the Beatles still have critics to this day. I'm not saying the Wu has no legacy like you keep implying, I am saying it is not as great as NWA's.

And I'm saying you're biased and you're opinion doesn't count.

I never claimed my opinion mattered more. You claimed yours did. We each have our own opinion. This became in arguement when you insisted you have more knowledge about something you didn't live through than someone who did. Just cause you read a book on a war doesn't mean you know more about it than a veteran. If you want you can throw together another post where you say I'm not a Wu fan, even though I have told you on multiple occasions in this arguement that I am. Just because someone doesn't think they are the greatest ever, doesn't mean they don't like them.

You didn't "live" through NWA, you heard their record. There's a difference.

And do I have to repeat myself EVERY SINGLE TIME:

When you say "all the solo records other than Liquid Swords are hit or miss" I seriously question wether you're a fan of rap, or just plainly not a Wu-Tang clan fan, which is understandable, since they arent easy to get into. Just dont call them overrated unless you like them.

[BigSteve]

This arguement is pointless. We can go back and forth forever on this topic, but nothing I can say will change your mind and vice versa. While your at it, go read a book on Woodstock and then argue with someone who was there about what happened.

[GregOden#1]

This arguement is pointless. We can go back and forth forever on this topic, but nothing I can say will change your mind and vice versa. While your at it, go read a book on Woodstock and then argue with someone who was there about what happened.

Please your logic is terrible. I respect people that lived in the 80's knowledge about that time period moreso than my own, but only if they know what the **** they're talking about. You clearly dont.

[BigSteve]

Please your logic is terrible. I respect people that lived in the 80's knowledge about that time period moreso than my own, but only if they know what the **** they're talking about. You clearly dont.

Whatever man. Agree to disagree.