Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 90

Thread: Censorship

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    VANCOUVER
    Posts
    50,739
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Way to dismiss numerous detalied responsed though
    That could have been my response too. Especially your insistence on "thought crimes" and talk about 1984. Come on man, that's the kind of silly point-twisting that makes it impossible to have a discussion. That's just hyperbole and not at all what we're talking about. I've made that clear and yet you persist with it. Makes it seem foolish to continue ...
    Last edited by ink; 08-25-2008 at 06:39 PM.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    cheese head land
    Posts
    4,088
    vCash
    1500
    I CANNOT seriously believe that people are saying Michael Moore is worse than Neo-Nazi's. There's a big, BIG difference between people who try to sway OPINIONS using LOGIC and FACT and trying to kill people because they're black/jewish/whatever. Making a movie and lighting a burning stake into somebody's lawn or killing them because of their skin color is so much different. Some people are just trying to be "edgy" and "provacative" just to be those things.



  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    VANCOUVER
    Posts
    50,739
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Oh please. To prove your case that neo-nazis are hurting our society today, you enlightened me to the horros of a 20+ year old case. But I don't believe neo-nazis in American are much of a threat to America. In this day and age. And you have yet to prove me wrong.
    At the risk of throwing this thread off-topic (and I'm not doing that, just responding to this particular point), it doesn't take much to find hate crimes in America today. Forget about where they're coming from and whether neo-nazis are responsible and focus on the fact that it's an issue and it is punishable. This article deals with "real world" events and statistics - 191,000 hate crimes committed annually. As we know, there is also a huge amount of hate on the web. The two aren't mutually exclusive:

    FBI: Hate crimes escalate 8% in 2006
    Updated 11/20/2007 12:54 AM

    What is a hate crime?: Congress has defined a hate crime as a "criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation."

    Source: FBI.gov

    By Marisol Bello, USA TODAY

    Hate crimes in the USA increased 8% in 2006, but some groups, including gays, Muslims and people with mental disabilities, experienced larger spikes in attacks, the FBI says.

    There were 7,722 hate crimes reported to the FBI in 2006. A hate crime is one motivated by a bias against a person's race, gender or other status.

    ON THE WEB: The FBI's 2006 hate crime stats

    Some significant increases:

    •A 19% increase in crimes motivated by religious bias. Attacks on Muslims increased 22% to 156 last year. Attacks on Catholics increased by almost a third to 76. Almost seven in 10 were crimes against Jews, which were up 14% to 967.

    •An 18% increase in crimes against gay men and lesbians to 1,195 in 2006.

    •Attacks on people with mental disabilities were up 94% to 62 in 2006.

    •Hate crimes against Hispanics were up 10% to 576 incidents.

    "Hate crimes impacted a wide range of groups," says Jack Levin, a sociology and criminology professor at Northeastern University in Boston. "It seems as though Americans are more suspicious of any group or members of a group seen as foreign, outsiders or intruders."

    Acts against Hispanics have risen by double digits for several years. Now, Levin says, anti-immigrant feelings have extended to other groups, such as Muslims and gays, that may be seen as a threat to mainstream culture.

    The number of hate crimes reported in 2007 is likely to grow, Levin says, fostered by the immigration debate, concerns about terrorism and high-profile racial conflicts.

    Hate crimes have gotten more attention this year, since six black students at a high school in Jena, La., were charged with attempted murder in the beating of a white classmate.

    The beating followed several racial encounters, including one in which white students hung nooses from a tree. That was not reported as a hate crime, partly because the FBI said the evidence did not prove the students were motivated by bias.

    Since July, the Justice Department has investigated more than 40 noose hangings in schools and workplaces.

    The FBI is the only agency that collects data on hate crimes, but numbers are flawed because victims are often afraid to report crimes and the number of police agencies participating fluctuates, says Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino.

    He cites a Bureau of Justice Statistics study that used police reports and surveys of 77,200 households from 2000 to 2003 to estimate that 191,000 hate crimes occur annually.
    Source: fbi.gov/usatoday.com

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    VANCOUVER
    Posts
    50,739
    vCash
    1500
    The Web fuels hate speech

    ----

    Organized hate groups and individuals alike are using all the tools available on the Internet to celebrate intolerance, to distort historical facts about the Holocaust, to threaten minorities and, most disturbingly, to recruit and indoctrinate young people to their hateful viewpoint. The haters find expression in chat rooms, on Web sites and in audio files.

    And now, with the recent advent of so-called Web 2.0 technologies, there is a proliferation of social networking homepages and uploaded "user-generated" videos designed to foster hatred and violence towards Jews and other minorities. Recycled Nazi propaganda films and modern rock music with hate-filled lyrics are sharing space on the Internet.

    There even are online games that celebrate the killing of minorities.

    And, of course, radical Islam is using the Internet to spread condemnation of Jews (and by association, because of its support of Israel) the United States. A virtual Jihad is underway.

    Just as the Holocaust started with the hate-filled words of Nazis, hate crimes also often follow hate speech. When the hard drives of criminals who have committed violence against minorities are searched, links to derogatory Internet sites are often found.
    Others suggested that the Internet industry should play a greater role in enforcing the Terms of Use that typically accompany the mainstream Internet services and that prohibit intolerant speech and harassing content. Google (and its YouTube service) as well as operators of social networking sites were criticized for not responding as quickly to complaints about hate speech as they do to objections to nudity. Most of the experts agreed that the Internet industry has not taken the issue of online hate speech very seriously.

    Likewise, with few exceptions, governments have not made fighting online hate a priority. The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe held a conference in 2004 focused on online anti-Semitism and xenophobia, adopting a series of high-minded resolutions, most of which have gathered dust on the shelf, with little government action.

    A notable exception is Germany, which finances the Jugendschutz organization to investigate and counter online hate speech with education.
    Source: International Herald Tribune

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Infiltrating Hippie Southwestern Command Center
    Posts
    1,405
    vCash
    1500
    well ink..not to sound insensitive but... 8000 hates crimes in a country with over 300 million jews, catholics, chinese, mormons, blacks, muslims, arabians, homosexuals, transsexuals, baptists, atheists, rednecks, metrosexuals, Europeans, illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, polish, russians, cubans, hispanics and whites doesnt seem like a real big issue to me

    and it was a big surprise to "only" see 156 attacks on muslims here... and only 76 attacks on catholics? ..i figured a lot more priest bashing was going around lol

    i would think peoples slow methodical release of rights "freedom of speech, freedom to assemble" would be a much more important issue than a few idiots who are intolerant and do harm based on "personal dislikes"
    Last edited by Doc Fluty; 08-25-2008 at 07:26 PM.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    VANCOUVER
    Posts
    50,739
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    well ink..not to sound insensitive but... 8000 hates crimes in a country with over 300 million jews, catholics, chinese, mormons, blacks, muslims, arabians, homosexuals, transsexuals, baptists, atheists, rednecks, metrosexuals, Europeans, illegal immigrants, legal immigrants, polish, russians, cubans, hispanics and whites doesnt seem like a real big issue to me

    and it was a big surprise to "only" see 156 attacks on muslims here... and only 76 attacks on catholics? ..i figured a lot more priest bashing was going around lol

    i would think peoples slow methodical release of rights "freedom of speech, freedom to assemble" would be a much more important issue than a few idiots who are intolerant and do harm based on "personal dislikes"
    Remember, I'm just posting on a thread about censorship and making the point that there are justifiable reasons for censorship when the issue is serious. I've spent exactly 10 minutes of my life looking into hate on the web and found material very easily. The stats you're referring to are just REPORTED cases. They don't speak to the millions of people who get their initial knowledge about a subject from web sites that thrive on ignorance.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    15,568
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin2007 View Post
    I CANNOT seriously believe that people are saying Michael Moore is worse than Neo-Nazi's. There's a big, BIG difference between people who try to sway OPINIONS using LOGIC and FACT and trying to kill people because they're black/jewish/whatever. Making a movie and lighting a burning stake into somebody's lawn or killing them because of their skin color is so much different. Some people are just trying to be "edgy" and "provacative" just to be those things.
    1) Facts and logic? Sadly, it's hard to say who uses less facts and logic in propaganda, Moore or Neo-nazi's.

    2) Comparing your average neo-nazi to Moore, Moore's worse for our society.


    3) Ink: From what I've read you are advocating thought crimes and mind control based on the majority will
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    cheese head land
    Posts
    4,088
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    1) Facts and logic? Sadly, it's hard to say who uses less facts and logic in propaganda, Moore or Neo-nazi's.

    2) Comparing your average neo-nazi to Moore, Moore's worse for our society.


    3) Ink: From what I've read you are advocating thought crimes and mind control based on the majority will
    Somebody peacefully and respectfully talking about their ideals is worse than a bunch of people killing and torturing and raping others?

    What's worse? Making a movie or KILLING people? Please, if you honestly believe this...



  9. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Infiltrating Hippie Southwestern Command Center
    Posts
    1,405
    vCash
    1500
    blender is talking about the "average" neo-nazi ...the average one doesnt rape and kill, he sits around getting pissed off when he watches obama on tv... but doesnt do much about it

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    VANCOUVER
    Posts
    50,739
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Ink: From what I've read you are advocating thought crimes and mind control based on the majority will
    I seriously have no idea what you are talking about. "Mind control" and "thought crimes" are sci-fi nonsense. I hate to even enter into this, but all I can do is restate the same things again: a person can "think" whatever they like. Thought is free. If a person wants to retain racist thoughts, that is their "right". It's actions that matter. Writing pamphlets filled with hate, posting or contributing to hate websites, those are things not condoned by either of our societies. It's being taken seriously enough by governments around the world. Oh, sorry I forgot government is evil.

    The Internet has provided hate groups with a relatively easy and cost-effective way to make their rhetoric of hatred available to an audience of millions. Realizing the Internet’s communication potential, hate groups have posted an increasing number of online “hate sites,” websites containing content that disparages a particular class of people. As the number of Internet hate sites has increased, the U.S. government has been called upon to ban these controversial websites.

    This comprehensive study explores whether there is a First Amendment basis for regulating U.S.-based hate sites. It identifies the various First Amendment tests developed by the federal courts for assessing the constitutionality of both non-mass-mediated hateful speech and Internet content, then examines a sample of U.S.-based hate sites to ascertain whether they contain constitutionally proscribable content under those standards.

    The study is unique in that it examines websites maintained by several different kinds of U.S.-based hate groups: Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazi, racist Skinhead, Christian Identity, Black separatist, neo-Confederate, White conservative, and pro-Jewish.

    Untangling the Web of Hate: Are Online “Hate Sites” Deserving of First Amendment Protection? is a valuable resource for anyone seeking to learn more about the content and constitutionality of Internet hate sites.
    http://www.cambriapress.com/cambriap...late=4&bid=138
    Last edited by ink; 08-25-2008 at 08:01 PM.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    cheese head land
    Posts
    4,088
    vCash
    1500
    Sweet. So the 8,000 plus hate crimes are what? That's 8,000 people directly affected, but like 50,000 friends/family members are affected too. But you guys are right, making a movie is much worse than killing a mentally ********/black/jewish/whatever person. I'd much rather have my kids kill black people than make movies, you guys are right.



  12. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Infiltrating Hippie Southwestern Command Center
    Posts
    1,405
    vCash
    1500
    so ink... in your opinion

    are you saying you support that if someone is putting out pamphlets with hate or handing out fliers that say something like... "get rid of the gays before your son comes home with a boyfriend!" ...you would support taking away their rights to voice their opinion?

    would you allow the KKK to hold public rallys?

    what rights do you suppose are flexible based on morals?

    (notice im not bashing you, or voicing my opinion... just asking a real question)
    Last edited by Doc Fluty; 08-25-2008 at 07:59 PM.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    cheese head land
    Posts
    4,088
    vCash
    1500
    It's simple. If you try to proliferate hateful/angry material against a certain group of people (gays, jews, blacks, w/e), it's HATE SPEECH. What don't you people understand?



  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fresno
    Posts
    6,268
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    so ink... in your opinion

    are you saying you support that if someone is putting out pamphlets with hate or handing out fliers that say something like... "get rid of the gays before your son comes home with a boyfriend!" ...you would support taking away their rights to voice their opinion?

    would you allow the KKK to hold public rallys?

    what rights do you suppose are flexible based on morals?
    As a liberial Democrat I say yes to The KKK having rally's. Fredom of speach is to valuable and I need to hear my enemy's words.
    Last edited by Raider_Vet; 08-25-2008 at 08:10 PM.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Infiltrating Hippie Southwestern Command Center
    Posts
    1,405
    vCash
    1500
    but after thinking for a moment i guess i too have some flexible views as it comes to rights...

    for instance i support the gubnent to tap phones and check back account based on verifiable "suspicious activities" such as large bank transfers from countries that dont like us..

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •