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  1. #106
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    i think obama and biden should switch roles.....

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    I think that Biden may actually make a better vice president than Hillary would have.....but I think Hillary would have given Obama a bigger boost in the polls.

    So....for Obama's campaign, I'd say it is a negative.
    But if he becomes president, it may become a positive...due to Biden's experience.
    I think I understand why you're seeing it that way. Hillary definitely would have been more of a "game changer" pick (to borrow Gergen's term), in terms of the punch that would pack with the media and the sector of the Democratic base who represent the "Hillary supporters who aren't sold on Obama yet" crew. But in terms of really competing with McCain for those independent voters, especially the often discussed "white working class" ones, I don't think that Hillary carries that much more - if any more at all - weight in that demographic.

    To put it in visual terms (that Hillary herself made), if we were to see Biden shooting a gun or taking a shot of whiskey, it wouldn't look so akward. Probably pretty normal in fact. Hillary did a very good job at connecting with the working class demographic in comparison with Obama in the primaries, but that doesn't necessarily mean she'd do that better than Biden as a veep choice. For a senator, he's got a lot of "regular guy" vibe going on.

    He's a real law and order type - the Violence Against Women Act, the Biden crime bill. He's probably the leading Democrat in this area. Right now Republicans are pointing to his work with McCain as a liability, but I think it's a strength. It would have been easy to pin a "like, the most liberal ticket E-VERRRRR" label to Obama/Clinton. With Biden it'll be pretty easy to debunk that. Tough on foreign policy, tough on crime - and just in terms of his voice, his persona, his rep - he comes across as kind of a tough guy.

    I think it's a ticket that conveys strength now more than Obama alone was able to do, and more than he'd have been able to do with Clinton, Bayh, Richardson or (had he remained scandal-free) Edwards.

    I think it also runs against the grain of McCain's (mistaken) prediction that Obama would "put politics before policy" (I think that was the phrase - may have been slightly different, but it was the gist) and choose more of a political selection than a practical one who would actually be qualified to take over the job if the need arose. I think it conveys a political realism and pragmatism to how Obama's running his campaign that counters the "all rhetoric and no substance" claims, and shows that he's serious - he's taking the job seriously, and he's serious about not only winning but being effective once he does.



    It's probably hard for all of us who aren't deeply involved in these campaigns to imagine the countless hours of debating and discussion, vetting and investigation... all the political calculus, all the factors weighed against each other, that Obama, McCain, or anyone before them went through in choosing a veep. When I first heard it was Biden, it was a bit "meh" for me. Seemed like kind of a bland, low impact, low risk low reward kind of choice. But now that the idea has settled some in my mind, and I've had more time to see what it kind of "looks like" and think about it more, I do actually think it makes a lot of sense and the more I mull it over, the more I like it..

    I think it was the right choice.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

    Atheists Of PSD

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    Except that he's working with Obama these days...
    Yes he is... I meant though if he were on the Republican ticket...

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    To put it in visual terms (that Hillary herself made), if we were to see Biden shooting a gun or taking a shot of whiskey, it wouldn't look so akward.
    It's funny that this type of posing is so important to elections. I'm sure you agree. And the funniest thing of all is that it's the cowboy stereotype that matters: guns and whiskey. The other night Blazing Saddles was on television - a movie from forty years ago that made fun of people's problems with a black sherriff.

    [Gabby Johnson (on the roof of the church) spots the new sheriff riding into town]
    Gabby Johnson: [shouting] The sheriff's a n*****.
    [the last word is lost in the peal of a church bell]
    Harriett Van Johnson: What did he say?
    Dr. Sam Johnson: He said the sheriff is near.

    -------

    [Dr. Sam Johnson, with laurel wreath in hand, greets new sheriff Bart by reading his prepared remarks, not realizing that Bart is black]
    Howard Johnson: As chairman of the welcoming committee, it's a pleasure to present a laurel and hearty handshake to our new
    [finally looks up]
    Howard Johnson: ...n*****.

    I guess some things never change. This election will be so much about Republican attempts to cast Barack Obama as "other".

    I think it conveys a political realism and pragmatism to how Obama's running his campaign that counters the "all rhetoric and no substance" claims, and shows that he's serious - he's taking the job seriously, and he's serious about not only winning but being effective once he does.
    It's consistent with everything Obama has done before. The fact that McCain is trying so hard to paint Obama as lacking in substance completely ignores the grassroots, consultative approach he has consistently taken in his career. He has said repeatedly that he is not afraid of being challenged by the people he works with, and his method is to surround himself with the best group he can. Sounds like a consensus based leader to me. So having someone on the ticket who has actually worked collaboratively with his political opponent, and who has challenged his abilities publicly, is evidence of a pragmatic leader. He's embracing challenge.
    Last edited by ink; 08-25-2008 at 11:06 AM.

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