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  1. #16
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    This has taken a strange turn, but I will drop my two cents in for what it is worth.

    Intellectually I am pro-choice. However, I have a hard time justifying that position heavily.

    I have two beautiful sons. In between those two sons, my wife had a miscarriage. I have to tell you that when that happened, it felt to both of us like we lost a child, not a cluster of cells. That is why it is even harder now for me to justify my base feeling that abortion should stay legal.

    think about stories you read about women who lose babies during crimes (they are beaten, shot, whatever). What is your first reaction? For a lot of people it is "(blank) killed a baby". I am the same way, and yet I say I am pro-choice.

    It is really tough and I cannot get on anyone for their opinion.

    This is yet another reason why I hate partisan politics so much. What does aborton have to do with immigration? What does the Fed have to do with highway work? The list is endless, and yet each party creates a platform that encompasses every issue on Earth and creates a "with us or against us" mentality. It is ridiculous. I should be able to want low taxes, staunch national defense, and gay marriage. What relation do those things have to each other? None, but what party am I if I am for all of those things? If I am not a party, who serves my interests?

  2. #17
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    You're right, this thread did veer a bit.

    And, I absolutely respect your position. I think that it's a place where we both see eye-to-eye. And as a mother/parent, I feel for you and your wife. That's a horrible thing that I understand all to well. I suffered a miscarriage as well; very early, but it was still an absolute shock to my husband and myself. Our miscarriage was between our two children as well (daughter then son). It is much more common than people realize.

    But, I absolutely agree. Politically speaking, I'm pro-choice. But, it's an entirely different issue when it becomes personal. And, although I tend to lean left on a lot of social issues (abortion, gay marriage, environment) and more centered on some (I like to think economy, trade, and foreign policy), there are very few candidates that one can truly align themselves behind.

    I, for instance, was a huge John Edwards supporter. He was a populist labor candidate. But, the reason I got behind him was health care and tax reform. He had strong union support -- but I'm a free-trader.

    Now, I don't know where I'm going with this. But, I just wanted you to know that I get where you're coming from.
    Когда́ де́ньги говоря́т, тогда́ пра́вда молчи́т

  3. #18
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    The pro-_______ Thread

    Seems it had to be made. The "age and affiliation" thread was getting completely derailed.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

    Atheists Of PSD

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastside Scott View Post
    This has taken a strange turn, but I will drop my two cents in for what it is worth.

    Intellectually I am pro-choice. However, I have a hard time justifying that position heavily.

    I have two beautiful sons. In between those two sons, my wife had a miscarriage. I have to tell you that when that happened, it felt to both of us like we lost a child, not a cluster of cells. That is why it is even harder now for me to justify my base feeling that abortion should stay legal.

    think about stories you read about women who lose babies during crimes (they are beaten, shot, whatever). What is your first reaction? For a lot of people it is "(blank) killed a baby". I am the same way, and yet I say I am pro-choice.

    It is really tough and I cannot get on anyone for their opinion.

    This is yet another reason why I hate partisan politics so much. What does aborton have to do with immigration? What does the Fed have to do with highway work? The list is endless, and yet each party creates a platform that encompasses every issue on Earth and creates a "with us or against us" mentality. It is ridiculous. I should be able to want low taxes, staunch national defense, and gay marriage. What relation do those things have to each other? None, but what party am I if I am for all of those things? If I am not a party, who serves my interests?
    Agree totally with your feeling on abortion. My late wife and I never considered it a option even when the first one was a surprise. It is a personal decision.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    You know the other side of this don't you? Do we have the right to police a baby by determining it should die? And there in lies the issue.
    This all go to back to when you believe life begins. Before the first tri-semster, for me, no. For you, it made be conception. Thus we will never agree.
    Last edited by WES445; 08-22-2008 at 02:22 AM.

  6. #21
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    Yeah, I didn't make this thread.

  7. #22
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    Hey if poor people want to scrape out their insides with a coathanger, be my guest. One of the many reasons poor people give birth to poor people who give birth to poor people is they can't keep their legs closed until marriage anyway.

    But this thread is going to be a flamefest anyway. The topic sentence is just asking for flaming and discussion on abortion could start off a bit more intellectually
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  8. #23
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    I didn't create this thread and I want it ****ing closed.

    It is my viewpoint, but I posted it in a thread.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandonwarne52 View Post
    I didn't create this thread and I want it ****ing closed.

    It is my viewpoint, but I posted it in a thread.
    Your post was just the first in the derailment of that other thread, and I had to extract these posts out of there to keep it on track.


    I would be perfectly fine with closing this and that being the end of it. Nobody is going to change anyone's mind on this issue anyhow, in my opinion. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm sure at some point it'll pop up again, but we'll cross that road when we come to it.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

    Atheists Of PSD

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