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Thread: Health Care

  1. #1
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    Health Care

    Im basically just wondering what any of the new Presidential candidates are planning on doing about health care? Im not a very political guy but figured there were some on here that could inform me on the subject. I think its a very important issue.

    - In 2007, nearly two-thirds of U.S. adults under 65 (116 million people) reported having problems with medical bills or debt, having put off needed care due to cost, or being uninsured or underinsured and consequently having high out-of-pocket medical costs relative to their income.
    Although such problems were seen across the board, they were particularly pronounced among low- and moderate-income families. More than half of adults earning less than $40,000 annually reported problems paying medical bills or being in debt as a result of health care expenses.
    - Thirty-nine percent of people with mounting bills or debts said they had depleted their savings to pay off bills; 29 percent were having problems paying for food, heat, rent and other basic necessities; and 30 percent had accumulated credit card debt.
    Many are also foregoing medical care, including medications: 45 percent of adults reported problems getting care because of rising costs (up from 29 percent in 2001).
    - One-third of respondents reported spending 10 percent or more of their income on medical costs, including premiums, in 2007, up from 21 percent in 2001.
    - About one-quarter of working-age adults with medical debt owe $4,000 or more while 12 percent owe $8,000 or more in medical expenses.
    - Twenty-eight percent of working-age U.S. adults (about 50 million people) were uninsured for at least part of 2007, up from 24 percent in 2001.
    Fourteen percent of working-age adults (25 million people) were underinsured, up from 9 percent in 2003.
    - Sixty-one percent of those with medical bill problems or accumulated medical debt were insured at the time care was provided. "Even adults with insurance reported problems in getting needed care," Collins noted.

  2. #2
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    I just earlier wrote my take on one aspect of this - pre-existing conditions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    I just earlier wrote my take on one aspect of this - pre-existing conditions.
    Cool good read thanks. I was basically wanting to see what you and Ari had to say on the subject.

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    Well, I'll admit that I haven't done a ton of reading on the health care plans of either candidates, as it is not a big issue for me at this time. DB, I didn't respond to you in the other forum, but I wish you the best with your health issues.

    One thing I would like to say and agree with Blender Boy, from the thread you linked DB, is that I don't think it is fair for the public to have to pay for everything for everyone. For example, I used to dip (chew tabacco). If I develop lip cancer or gum dissease, it's nobody's fault but mine (good Zepplin song) and don't think the tax payers should have to pay for it or for the alcoholics that need new livers or any other self inflicted condition. (DB, this isn't a direct response to your post as your condintion is of no fault of your own). Just my general thoughts on the health care subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    One thing I would like to say and agree with Blender Boy, from the thread you linked DB, is that I don't think it is fair for the public to have to pay for everything for everyone. For example, I used to dip (chew tabacco). If I develop lip cancer or gum dissease, it's nobody's fault but mine (good Zepplin song) and don't think the tax payers should have to pay for it or for the alcoholics that need new livers or any other self inflicted condition. (DB, this isn't a direct response to your post as your condintion is of no fault of your own). Just my general thoughts on the health care subject.
    Yeah, I agree with you to an extent. Makes sense for the healthcare issue.

    Although, I am not a big fan of Obama's or McCain's healthcare ideas.

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    I think one thing people need to note is that the quote talked about how low to moderate income families were having problems with healthcare because they depleted their savings paying off debt... Therefore the way I see it the problem isn't people not having enough money for healthcare, its them willingly putting themselves in a position to not be able to afford it due to buying houses and cars they cannot afford

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    I'm not necessarily a big fan of either candidates health care platforms, either. And, health care is an important issue to me. I have a story, but I don't feel like getting into it on an internet forum. I think it's great that DB did.

    (Just to convey where I sit on the health care fence, I'm of the opinion that the John Edwards health care plan is a good starting point towards national health care)

    I'm glad to see that both candidates are at least addressing the issue of health care, at least. I know that many self-proclaimed conservatives are of the opinion that McCain is a leftist Republican, and I suppose on a few issues that could be construed as the case. But, it is refreshing to see, as a Democrat, that he is taking it upon himself to address health care as a platform.

    I don't like the fact that McCain wants to dismantle the rather successful practice of employer-based health care to allow individuals and families to go out on their own and obtain their own health insurance. Even with tax breaks of $5k per year, this is a bad idea. The average healthy three person family pays out nearly $13,000 every year on health insurance. $5,000 isn't going to cut it. Also, this wouldn't help to cover people with pre-existing conditions (like DB). They'd be on their own, insurance-less.

    Obama's plan isn't a great deal better, in my opinion. But again, at least he's addressing the issue. He wants to expand child health care (SCHIP) and also allow smaller businesses that can't afford health care coverage under the current alignment to be able to buy into a state run program that provides insurance to employees. From my understanding, there would be no clauses preventing people with pre-existing conditions from coverage.

    However, the Obama plan still leaves out a swath of people that will not be able to afford health care, regardless. He plans on making it more affordable, but a low-income household with two working parents still sometimes can't make ends meet. They should not be left exempt from the system. That's why I'm for completely universal coverage (ala the UK's NHS).

    I think we'll get there some day. And, the Obama plan is a good jumping off point. But, I think he's going to have a very difficult time getting it pushed.

    Here's a bit more head-to-head information on the two candidates respective health care platforms.
    http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=5&c=16
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    I just wonder how much better our health care and other government programs would be if we wouldn't have spent trillions of dollars on spreading democracy(war). That's why candidates tell me they care about the people of America, I know its a lie.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    Well, I'll admit that I haven't done a ton of reading on the health care plans of either candidates, as it is not a big issue for me at this time. DB, I didn't respond to you in the other forum, but I wish you the best with your health issues.

    One thing I would like to say and agree with Blender Boy, from the thread you linked DB, is that I don't think it is fair for the public to have to pay for everything for everyone. For example, I used to dip (chew tabacco). If I develop lip cancer or gum dissease, it's nobody's fault but mine (good Zepplin song) and don't think the tax payers should have to pay for it or for the alcoholics that need new livers or any other self inflicted condition. (DB, this isn't a direct response to your post as your condintion is of no fault of your own). Just my general thoughts on the health care subject.

    I agree with that in principle, the idea that those of us who don't smoke having to pay for the health problems of smokers is unfair. But then again, that's part of the reason why smokes are like $10 a pack in NYC, right? "Sin taxes" in theory at least are supposed to go back into the system so that the people engaging in behavior that's harmful to the health are paying a greater share of the burden for fixing the problems caused by those behaviors.

    I'm sure this is impossible to quantify in any absolute terms, but I wonder if there are any statistics out there that roughly estimate the percentage of "self-inflicted" health care costs as opposed to the rest. Because the obvious flip side to the argument that people who smoke shouldn't have to pay for smokers' lung cancer treatments is that, well, only a fraction of what they're paying into the health care system falls into that category, while there is a (greater, I would assume) fraction being paid towards "legitimate" health issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    I agree with that in principle, the idea that those of us who don't smoke having to pay for the health problems of smokers is unfair. But then again, that's part of the reason why smokes are like $10 a pack in NYC, right? "Sin taxes" in theory at least are supposed to go back into the system so that the people engaging in behavior that's harmful to the health are paying a greater share of the burden for fixing the problems caused by those behaviors.

    I'm sure this is impossible to quantify in any absolute terms, but I wonder if there are any statistics out there that roughly estimate the percentage of "self-inflicted" health care costs as opposed to the rest. Because the obvious flip side to the argument that people who smoke shouldn't have to pay for smokers' lung cancer treatments is that, well, only a fraction of what they're paying into the health care system falls into that category, while there is a (greater, I would assume) fraction being paid towards "legitimate" health issues.
    Sin taxes don't go towards health care; they are just taxes towards vices (alcohol, tobacco, and gambling) that are made to fund special projects, not usually health care. The thought is that these are items that government can tax, where as income or property taxes would not be acceptable by the public. Because they have inelastic demand, (people will always want their booze, cigarettes and gambling) they can always squeeze more tax revenue out of them.
    Last edited by b1e9a8r5s; 08-22-2008 at 01:46 AM.

  11. #11
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    Yes, there are those who illness is self-inflicted, but a majority of cancer victims aren't. If we want a two tier medical care, great (the able get the best, while the unable don't). Lets agree to atleast cover pre-natal to college age citizens and the elderly. Two parts of society we should take care of.

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    Does Obama's plan cover illegals? I heard that it does, but have not seen evidence (admittedly, I haven't looked at eithers health care plan in much detail). Could someone let me know?

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    It hasn't been explicitly stated one way or the other. The McCain camp is saying that Obama's plan will cover illegal immigrants, stating that 10 - 12 million of the (almost) 50 million Americans without coverage are, in fact, illegal immigrants. And, that his plan would cover them.

    However, the Obama camp under David Cutler (Obama's senior health care adviser) suggests that the plan won't. That Obama's health care strategy covers all Americans (i.e. "citizens"). But, when Obama stated "47 million uninsured" individuals, he wasn't necessarily talking about illegals. And, nowhere in his plan does it actually read that he's going to cover illegal aliens.

    But, technically, Obama doesn't have the market cornered on that. The McCain plan would offer tax breaks to illegals who use fake/stolen SSNs and are employed by company's. They'd just have to go out, on their own, and get coverage. The Obama plan just has them covered through their employer.

    Remember this about the Obama health care plan. It isn't even close to a national health system. There is no mandate. And, it requires the people that cannot receive benefits from their employer to go out and actively seek health coverage. It's just a movement to make coverage more affordable. There is still private coverage, but medicare and medicaid is being expanded so it is available to people who cannot obtain any insurance via the employer.
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    McCain is the illegals favorite white guy. He should have lost the primary and his senate seat just for trying to pass amnesty and then saying he was opposed to amnesty
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

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    I don't necessarily care if we make the move to national healthcare or not. I just want there to be a system put in place so that I don't have to pay $200 every month for "the right" to go shell out $50 at the doctor's office just to be there, and then spend up to $1750 more of my deductible if I choose to get something like an X-Ray that isn't covered in my insurance provider's vague-as-**** packet that tells you what is and isn't covered. I want there to be some sort of regulation to make reasonable healthcare affordable. I don't want my health insurance to be a chunk of money that makes me wince when it comes out of my bank account.

    And Raidaz4life, there is no way you can be more than 16 if you can't understand that there are many different people in many different stages of life, and that the people who can't afford health insurance aren't just people who get "houses and cars that they can't afford." It's really sad to see someone use such a sweeping generalization to make all the people who can't afford health insurance seem so little to you.
    Last edited by CubsGirl; 08-22-2008 at 11:59 AM.

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