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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoGetz View Post
    There is no proof that McCain was listening to the questions while in the motorcade. This would be a non issue, but the good Pastor had to make a joke about the cone of silence.
    Why should this be a non issue? I do agree that the claims aren't (and probably can't be) substantiated that McCain could have tuned in from the limo. But the real issue is that we viewers were given the distinct impression that for the entire time that Obama was taking questions, McCain was in a room backstage where he had no way of hearing what was going on. So it seems those were the terms both parties agreed to - and that by taking his time to mosey on over there, McCain did not in fact abide by those terms, and by doing so created a window of time in which he at least had the opportunity to get information about what questions he would be asked. I wouldn't consider that a "non issue" in the least.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr swag View Post
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_119476.html

    mccain got the questions before hand

    lol that dirty old man using the same low road politcs
    All that article says is that he was in the limo when it started which doesn't mean he got the questions. The article doesn't say that, and you will never be able to prove it one way or the other (unfortunately). I love how it's being portrayed by you that McCain cheated. If the situation would have been reversed and the McCain camp accused Obama of this, you'd still be using the "same low road politics" line on McCain.
    Last edited by b1e9a8r5s; 08-18-2008 at 11:53 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    I agree with the post 2 up (#11), and also think that the audience and mediator did create a favorable environent for McCain because the crowd was bound to be much more enthusiastic about his responses since it was pretty much a conservative congregation.

    And yeah, I read that the mediator (can't remember his name now) later acknowledged that although he'd said McCain was in a "cone of silence" backstage, McCain actually left his hotel around the time Obama's questions started and was in his limo for about 30 minutes before arriving at the venue. The McCain camp has said he didn't listen to the questions while in the car, and the mediator said he takes him at his word on that. So whether he actually turned on the television or not is something that can only be speculated on. The Obama camp said they didn't intend to pursue that, that as far as they know both candidates got the same information.
    I thought Rick Warren did a really good job as the moderator. I didn't think he was bias and thought it was pretty cool how he asked, almost word for word, the exact same questions. I think the audience, being evangelical or christian, was clearly going to favor McCain to some extent, and that played out. McCain basically had a home court advantage. McCain had the "right" (no punn intended) answers in their minds regarding abortion and gay marriage which tend to be important issues in the Christian community.

  4. #19
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    lol they can not be a winner or loser

    it wasnt about issues it was about faith
    Of course there can be a winner. One of the biggest questions about Obama is can he lead and these forums show what he's got and he has to preform well. Of course this wasn't a debate but as of right now round 1 goes to McCain.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_119476.html

    mccain got the questions before hand

    lol that dirty old man using the same low road politcs
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Yeah, how dare a presidential candidate NOT pretend to claim to be GOD and have the cosmological knowledge of "when life begins"...
    Well, I would expect someone who is pro-choice to say that life begins at birth, right? Pro-choicers aren't going to tell you they are killing live babies, they are terminating fetus', so in that respect, I thought it was somewhat of a cop out.

  6. #21
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    so much for seperation of church and state.. now we're having Faith Based Interviews and Discussion Forums?
    oh my god! did you hear? Alex Rodriguez left a floater and didn't do a double flush!!! someone alert the media this must be news!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    Well, I would expect someone who is pro-choice to say that life begins at birth, right?
    Why would you assume that the question can be boiled down to such a simple black/white, yes/no duality? Moral dilemmas regarding choices about who lives and who dies are ALWAYS complicated.

    Case in point: The vast majority of pro-lifers support execution. (Proving the whole "pro-life" moniker false, btw, but that's a different discussion). Furthermore, nearly all of them have a religious (and usually Christian) moral basis for holding their anti-abortion beliefs. In a nutshell, "Thou shalt not kill". Yet, clearly, their moral ambiguity is just as great as any pro-choicer who opposes the death penalty. They're still wresting the power that their own God reserved for himself ("Judgment is mine") from out of his hands and claiming that they should be able to kill convicted criminals. And most pro-lifers also support war in many circumstances, which not only claims lives but claims innocent lives. So for either side to claim exclusive holding rights to the moral high ground when it comes to these decisions is pretty much bull****. It's just that one side does it a little more than the other.


    Right now, pro-life groups are trying to make the most of the "pay scale" quote by endlessly repeating that one sentence. And that's no surprise - that's just politics. But if you look at what Obama actually said (and this is only some of it), he actually gave a thoughtful answer which a) was respectful to those who disagree, b) acknowledged (unlike McCain) that there is more than one side to the issue, and c) proposed to (unlike Bush or McCain) actually DO SOMETHING as president to reduce the number of abortions taking place:

    "For me, the goal right now should be, and this is where I think we can find common ground - and by the way I've now inserted this into the Democratic Party platform - is how do we reduce the number of abortions? Because the fact is that although we've had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down. And that I think is something that we have to ask ourselves...

    I am in favor, for example, of limits on late term abortions if there is an exception for the mother's health. Now, from the perspective of those who are pro-life, I think they would consider that inadequate. And I respect their views. I mean, one of the things I've always said is that on this particular issue, if you believe that life begins at conception, and you are consistent in that belief, then I can't argue with you on that. Because that is a core issue of faith for you. What I can do is say, 'Are there ways that we can work together to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies so that we actually are reducing the sense that women are seeking out abortions?'"
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  8. #23
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    Alright, you got me, I over simplified a complex issue.

    One thing I will say is that Obama SAYS he's for limits on late abortions but his record doesn't prove that out.

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...YxNmEwMTdhYWE=

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Why would you assume that the question can be boiled down to such a simple black/white, yes/no duality? Moral dilemmas regarding choices about who lives and who dies are ALWAYS complicated.

    Case in point: The vast majority of pro-lifers support execution. (Proving the whole "pro-life" moniker false, btw, but that's a different discussion). Furthermore, nearly all of them have a religious (and usually Christian) moral basis for holding their anti-abortion beliefs. In a nutshell, "Thou shalt not kill". Yet, clearly, their moral ambiguity is just as great as any pro-choicer who opposes the death penalty. They're still wresting the power that their own God reserved for himself ("Judgment is mine") from out of his hands and claiming that they should be able to kill convicted criminals. And most pro-lifers also support war in many circumstances, which not only claims lives but claims innocent lives. So for either side to claim exclusive holding rights to the moral high ground when it comes to these decisions is pretty much bull****. It's just that one side does it a little more than the other.


    Right now, pro-life groups are trying to make the most of the "pay scale" quote by endlessly repeating that one sentence. And that's no surprise - that's just politics. But if you look at what Obama actually said (and this is only some of it), he actually gave a thoughtful answer which a) was respectful to those who disagree, b) acknowledged (unlike McCain) that there is more than one side to the issue, and c) proposed to (unlike Bush or McCain) actually DO SOMETHING as president to reduce the number of abortions taking place:
    Gotta watch out for those babies packin heat and raping people. Geez. Thank god you opened my eyes. So how did you survive your abortion? Did your mother ask you then spare you?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Why would you assume that the question can be boiled down to such a simple black/white, yes/no duality? Moral dilemmas regarding choices about who lives and who dies are ALWAYS complicated.

    Case in point: The vast majority of pro-lifers support execution. (Proving the whole "pro-life" moniker false, btw, but that's a different discussion). Furthermore, nearly all of them have a religious (and usually Christian) moral basis for holding their anti-abortion beliefs. In a nutshell, "Thou shalt not kill". Yet, clearly, their moral ambiguity is just as great as any pro-choicer who opposes the death penalty. They're still wresting the power that their own God reserved for himself ("Judgment is mine") from out of his hands and claiming that they should be able to kill convicted criminals. And most pro-lifers also support war in many circumstances, which not only claims lives but claims innocent lives. So for either side to claim exclusive holding rights to the moral high ground when it comes to these decisions is pretty much bull****. It's just that one side does it a little more than the other.


    Right now, pro-life groups are trying to make the most of the "pay scale" quote by endlessly repeating that one sentence. And that's no surprise - that's just politics. But if you look at what Obama actually said (and this is only some of it), he actually gave a thoughtful answer which a) was respectful to those who disagree, b) acknowledged (unlike McCain) that there is more than one side to the issue, and c) proposed to (unlike Bush or McCain) actually DO SOMETHING as president to reduce the number of abortions taking place:
    Well he can claim he wants to lower abortions but the only way to significantly lower abortions are to eliminate it or put some sort of consequence on it which we both know will never happen. I mean if people continue to have a get out of jail free card what is to stop them from committing crimes. Or in this case if there are no consequences for pre-marital sex than what is to stop people from going out and looking for it.

    I will concede to you that the title of pro-life is very deceiving because I for one do not support protecting life under all circumstances.... I am more pro choice by label in the sense that i feel every individual has a choice of what they want to do with their OWN life and obviously infants are not getting that choice. But on the flip side if a criminal has made up in his mind that life is so meaningless that he may take the life of another person unprovoked, then I believe he has forfeited his own life. But Den we will have to agree to disagree but technically if I think about it I am more pro choice than pro life.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogerRomo View Post
    Gotta watch out for those babies packin heat and raping people. Geez. Thank god you opened my eyes. So how did you survive your abortion? Did your mother ask you then spare you?
    See that thing that just went zooming by over your head? No? You missed it?

    Too bad. That was my point.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Yeah, how dare a presidential candidate NOT pretend to claim to be GOD and have the cosmological knowledge of "when life begins"...
    Now I have been out of the loop on everything the past month as ive been out of town doing numerous things that have allowed me no access to computers or TV....so help me out on this Den....what exactly was the context of the "Above my pay raise" comment?? Was he talking about a newborn babies right to live?? Like....an already out-of-the-womb baby??? That is what I was told but the way you responded gives me the impression it was something different....

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamShaker View Post
    Now I have been out of the loop on everything the past month as ive been out of town doing numerous things that have allowed me no access to computers or TV....so help me out on this Den....what exactly was the context of the "Above my pay raise" comment?? Was he talking about a newborn babies right to live?? Like....an already out-of-the-womb baby??? That is what I was told but the way you responded gives me the impression it was something different....
    The question was asked when does life begin. Not a direct quote, but that was the jist of it. McCain said at conception, Obama gave the answer you saw.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    The question was asked when does life begin. Not a direct quote, but that was the jist of it. McCain said at conception, Obama gave the answer you saw.
    Gotcha....I keep hearing things Obama has been saying lately and am just dumbfounded....I don't really like Mc?Cain and woulda preffered a few other guys in the Republican Party to run.....but Obama is just....I dunno....did he really say the solution to our energy crisis is to air up our tires more???

  15. #30
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    maybe obamas talking points were answering questions about stem cell research and abortion.

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