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View Poll Results: Best Pitcher of All-Time

Voters
188. You may not vote on this poll
  • Nolan Ryan

    31 16.49%
  • Walter Johnson

    27 14.36%
  • Cy Young

    18 9.57%
  • Greg Maddux

    17 9.04%
  • Roger Clemens

    8 4.26%
  • Bob Gibson

    6 3.19%
  • Randy Johnson

    12 6.38%
  • Sandy Kofax

    33 17.55%
  • Tom Glavine

    2 1.06%
  • Warren Spahn

    1 0.53%
  • Steve Carlton

    2 1.06%
  • Pedro Martinez

    22 11.70%
  • Gover Clever Alexander

    1 0.53%
  • Christy Matthewson

    1 0.53%
  • Other

    7 3.72%
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Results 91 to 105 of 180
  1. #91
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    Nolan is #2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Woo Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!


    God bless you kids!


    Batboy: Get a hit, Crash.
    Crash: Shut Up!

  2. 01-26-2011, 05:01 AM

  3. 01-26-2011, 05:02 AM

  4. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Sweater View Post
    Nolan is #2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Woo Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!


    God bless you kids!
    Yeah, but Koufax being #1 is arguably worse then Ryan at #2.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  5. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Yeah, but Koufax being #1 is arguably worse then Ryan at #2.

    Past a 6 year peak you got a point.


    Batboy: Get a hit, Crash.
    Crash: Shut Up!

  6. #94
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    I can only speak for those who I saw.

    Koufax is the best I ever saw. For one year (1967 or '68) it was Gibson.

  7. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomota48 View Post
    I can only speak for those who I saw.

    Koufax is the best I ever saw. For one year (1967 or '68) it was Gibson.
    I said that until I saw 90% of the games Pedro pitched from 1998-2004, Koufax wasn't as good, and I saw him live too.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #96
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    No love for Old Hoss Radbourn?

    I agree with Clemens @ #1 but man oh man, Pedro might have had the best peak ever seen before.

  9. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I said that until I saw 90% of the games Pedro pitched from 1998-2004, Koufax wasn't as good, and I saw him live too.
    Gibson's '68 ranks right up there, but, for sheer volume value nobody touches Carlton's '72. Carlton's 1972 is the #1 WAR year since 1913.

    But add up Pedro '97-'05 - 1842 IP. nobody in the history of baseball (esp since 1920) has a stretch like that:

    149-53
    1st in ERA (5)
    ERA+ (5)
    K (3)
    K > 300 (2)
    WHIP (6)
    H/9 (6)
    K/9 (5)

    For post 1920 pitchers, his ERA+ single season rankings in that '97-'05 span are: 1, 6, 11, 14, 17

    Only Maddux (2) and Clemens (3) have more then 2 of the top 17 years. In my time Guidry, Gibson, Brown, Greinke are the others with 1 each. Koufax doesn't show up until a good deal lower ~30. Koufax worked more innings (they all did back then) in his big seasons, so he's got Pedro in top WAR seasons, but then he's done and Pedro keeps on truckin'
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-29-2011 at 06:14 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #98
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    I'm a guy who values peaks but Koufax's first half of his career still counts! He puts up over a 4.00 ERA in an era where that is grabage.

    1956-1961. 3.98 REA. 105 ERA+. 53-52 record (I know, I know... wins/loss records are useless, well, except for the fact that this was the same team that he was also going 25-5 with). 4.5 Walks per 9.
    Suck it

  11. #99
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    Let me throw in my two cents here. I did see Koufax and of course saw Pedro.
    Without tossing any numbers out here, I can only say for one game, I wouldn't bet against either one of these guys.

    The one negative is there are others on the list that had longer careers and longevity counts in ranking the best.

    When Koufax was in those good years, I was always surprised when he lost a game. Of course I knew he could be beat, common sense. But at the start of every game, I always thought, who ever the opposing pitcher was, he better be on his game, give up a run or two and he might lose.
    Seemed to me like Sandy was in another league, he was too good to be pitching against any team.

  12. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Let me throw in my two cents here. I did see Koufax and of course saw Pedro.
    Without tossing any numbers out here, I can only say for one game, I wouldn't bet against either one of these guys.

    The one negative is there are others on the list that had longer careers and longevity counts in ranking the best.

    When Koufax was in those good years, I was always surprised when he lost a game. Of course I knew he could be beat, common sense. But at the start of every game, I always thought, who ever the opposing pitcher was, he better be on his game, give up a run or two and he might lose.
    Seemed to me like Sandy was in another league, he was too good to be pitching against any team.
    If you could isolate just Koufax's great years, and then have him do it for 5k innings. He's #1. But you can't isolate his weak years and he didn't pitch long enough.

    Pedro is in the same ball park, except his peak is longer, his career is longer and his rate numbers are better.

    The only guys that ever hit some magic level (more then two years (otherwise Saberhagen, Guidry, Gooden and more get in) in my time is: Koufax, Gibson, Seaver, Carlton, Maddux, RJ, RC, Pedro, Tiant, Palmer, Marichal; Cone, Tiant, Schilling - except for the last 3 - all in the top 25 of all time. All gave you that feeling - we win tonight.

    Per inning, and W-L% over team, all of them take a back seat to Pedro. Three dominant pitches? He is the only one. Clemens is the next best, and kills Pedro for longevity and value, but not peak or rate stats.

    Koufax:

    at the end of the 1960 season: 36-40; 691.2 IP, 1.428 WHIP; ERA+ 100

    Interestingly that was in Brooklyn which was a hitters park.....

    He pitched off a monster mound, with a strike zone that actually went to the letters, not two inches over the belt like today. Take a guess what that did for a power pitcher.

    By comparison Pedro has a DH, much smaller zone, smaller parks, much bigger better trained hitters. If Pedro pitched back in the early 60's in LAD in his prime, ERA's under 1.00 would not be a big surprise.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-29-2011 at 03:44 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  13. #101
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    Interesting stats:

    Pedro has the best career ERA+ among starters.
    Pedro has the best single season ERA+ since Tim Keefe's 12 starts in 1880.

  14. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    If you could isolate just Koufax's great years, and then have him do it for 5k innings. He's #1. But you can't isolate his weak years and he didn't pitch long enough.

    Pedro is in the same ball park, except his peak is longer, his career is longer and his rate numbers are better.

    The only guys that ever hit some magic level (more then two years (otherwise Saberhagen, Guidry, Gooden and more get in) in my time is: Koufax, Gibson, Seaver, Carlton, Maddux, RJ, RC, Pedro, Tiant, Palmer, Marichal; Cone, Tiant, Schilling - except for the last 3 - all in the top 25 of all time. All gave you that feeling - we win tonight.

    Per inning, and W-L% over team, all of them take a back seat to Pedro. Three dominant pitches? He is the only one. Clemens is the next best, and kills Pedro for longevity and value, but not peak or rate stats.

    Koufax:

    at the end of the 1960 season: 36-40; 691.2 IP, 1.428 WHIP; ERA+ 100

    Interestingly that was in Brooklyn which was a hitters park.....

    He pitched off a monster mound, with a strike zone that actually went to the letters, not two inches over the belt like today. Take a guess what that did for a power pitcher.

    By comparison Pedro has a DH, much smaller zone, smaller parks, much bigger better trained hitters. If Pedro pitched back in the early 60's in LAD in his prime, ERA's under 1.00 would not be a big surprise.
    I did state that in my post.......in those good years, I wouldn't bet against Sandy.
    I was not evaluating his whole career. He did have the higher strike zone and higher mound than Pedro, but I was not comparing him to Pedro.
    In that time period pitching under the same conditions as others in his time he was the guy I would put my money on for any one game.

  15. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by cambovenzi View Post
    Interesting stats:

    Pedro has the best career ERA+ among starters.
    Pedro has the best single season ERA+ since Tim Keefe's 12 starts in 1880.
    I don't count Keefe's accomplishment. Fifty feet from home?


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  16. #104
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    Koufax pitched in a pitchers park and a pitchers era. Higher mounds, large strike zones and pitching against the pitchers. Pedro faced the exact opposite conditions plus juiced hitters. Pedro was consistent for his entire career rather than just turning a corner one year. 6 years of the best in the league or 8 with a handful of quality seasons as well.
    Suck it

  17. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    OK, who do you have in front of Seaver? Would it be Koufax?

    Seaver's best 12 years in order of WAR, followed by Koufax's best 12:

    09.5, 09.2, 7.7, 7.6, 7.5, 6.4, 6.0, 5.8, 5.7, 5.7, 5.4, 4.8

    10.8, 10.8, 8.2, 7.8, 5.6, 4.4, 2.3, 1.8, 1.3, 1.1, 0.8, -0.4

    it was a trick, Koufax only had 12 seasons

    Oh yeah, Seaver had 8 more seasons then Koufax not listed:

    4.8, 4.2, 3.7, 3.4, 2.5, 2.2, 1.9, 1.6, -0.5, -0.8 - add them up = 23.0

    105.3 WAR for Seaver; 54.5 for Koufax; 63.5 for Palmer; 85.6 for Gibby; 93.4 for Spahn... go back - he beats Feller. Grove at 98.3 is the first guy with an argument against Seaver IMO (1925-1941), and RC in our time (if the cloud doesn't hang over him too heavily).

    I don't think I'm putting anyone in front of Seaver. He is for certain top 3 in my eyes. WJ is so long ago, it's hard for me to compare and like you said its hard to see where history will place RC. I wish Seaver could have pitched against the Mets in the '86 series. I doubt very seriously he would have asked to come out of the game over a dang blister.

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