
Originally Posted by
cambovenzi
There may have been different rules back then, but it was still baseball.
What if a player from back then just decided than none of these performances should count because its from ~60ft out?
He is the career leader in br WAR for pitchers. By alot.
Personally I put alot of stock in peak value rather than longevity, but a case can certainly be made for Young.
When I was growing up you couldn't even get stats before 1901 because the game was considered irregular and inferior to what came later.
Cy Young is the leader in WAR because he was able to first throw from 50' and then throw in the 80-85 MPH range, which extended longevity by a ton. His top 3 IP years were from 50' (453, 423, 422) - in my town 8 year olds pitch from 45'. There are pitchers in High School today that threw harder then Young ever did. How can he be translated to today?
He also earned his WAR against a wholly inferior group of athletes to what was available later. No minorities, population of the US was what then? 35 million?
Let's parse Young's BR "WAR" from best down:
1892: 453 IP (anyone done that since 1893? Answer: No) 12.6 WAR
1901: 371 IP - 11.2 WAR (inferior league to NL)
1895: 10.6 WAR - he's got the distance, but look at the competition.
1893: 10.4 WAR in 422 IP (what's that today 5.0 WAR)? another 50' fraud.
1894: 9.0 WAR 408 IP (yeah he's throwing real hard....)
1902: 6.9 WAR - inferior league problem again
1896: 8.8 in 414 (4.3 today?) assuming he could throw much harder?
1908: hey finally 299 IP at age 41 for an 8.2 throwing hard enough for BP today.
Bill James doesn't have Young 1st - I believe it's 5th. James is too nice IMO.
I've got actual stats that show the change in the game over time, I'm going to do the pitcher list and all the other positions I did before, and Young won't likely crack the top 15 anymore.
That Award should be called the Walter Johnson award, he was a far greater pitcher then Young. His 411 wins is the most sanctioned in history. He was good (not great) in the live ball era too.
Last edited by bagwell368; 02-05-2011 at 10:39 PM.
I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!
Guess who? The future X-Presdent...