Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 102
  1. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NOR CAL
    Posts
    8,965
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    No Randy....It's a simple case or right and wrong. Why you are confused on this issue I just can't understand.
    you didn't know he was right and either did he until way after the fact
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Infiltrating Hippie Southwestern Command Center
    Posts
    1,405
    vCash
    1500
    well i cant understand how someone is qualified to be the most powerful man on earth after 140 days experience and all he shouts is CHANGE!!!

    so i guess were both befuddled

    i would honestly feel more comfortable if hillary was still in it

    at least when Jerusalem goes by by she can ask bill what to do

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fresno
    Posts
    6,268
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    you didn't know he was right and either did he until way after the fact
    You're argument is inane Randy. Is it that you were in Iraq Randy and don't want to live up to the fact that the war you fought in was based on lies? Randy I am not saying turn you're back on the whole effort in Iraq but please live in the world of reality and come to terms with the fact that Bush was wrong, O'Bama was correct and so was the rest of the world when they said that Iraq was not a threat and had no WMD's and we should not of gone to war. Maybe O'Bama listened to the real experts like Han's and the rest of the weapons experts when they said Iraq had no WMD's unlike G.W. Bush and Cheney? Thats what I call good judgement which is something Republican leadership has lacked for a long time.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fresno
    Posts
    6,268
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    well i cant understand how someone is qualified to be the most powerful man on earth after 140 days experience and all he shouts is CHANGE!!!

    so i guess were both befuddled

    i would honestly feel more comfortable if hillary was still in it

    at least when Jerusalem goes by by she can ask bill what to do
    Ask JFK who was a one term Senator. I'll take the guy with good judgement ANYDAY over the experienced moron who got it wrong.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Athens-UGA
    Posts
    1,664
    vCash
    1500
    He was running for the Senate in Illinois...let's face it, it was a politically popular decision for him to run opposed to the war...he was facing off against a really unpopular Republican nominee who was, of course, all for it...and the vast majority of the people he was catering to were upper class, anti-war liberals. He keeps saying that's how he would have voted had he been in the Senate...well, he doesn't really know, so I think it's wrong of him to assert that. He made a political decision to oppose the war...and it turned out that it was the right decision.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NOR CAL
    Posts
    8,965
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    You're argument is inane Randy. Is it that you were in Iraq Randy and don't want to live up to the fact that the war you fought in was based on lies? Randy I am not saying turn you're back on the whole effort in Iraq but please live in the world of reality and come to terms with the fact that Bush was wrong, O'Bama was correct and so was the rest of the world when they said that Iraq was not a threat and had no WMD's and we should not of gone to war. Maybe O'Bama listened to the real experts like Han's and the rest of the weapons experts when they said Iraq had no WMD's unlike G.W. Bush and Cheney? Thats what I call good judgement which is something Republican leadership has lacked for a long time.
    Well Vet I still feel good about my involvement because it was during Desert Sheild / Storm not the most recent episode. I have said on a couple different occasions that we should have done things differently. We had the man power the rest of the worlds support for the most part........times were different then.

    And I get where you are going with saying Obama was correct in his judgement. But you also must understand that no one else knew he was correct until they were there and not finding anything. That is why I stated it was kind of after the fact.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fresno
    Posts
    6,268
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by tomno00 View Post
    He was running for the Senate in Illinois...let's face it, it was a politically popular decision for him to run opposed to the war...he was facing off against a really unpopular Republican nominee who was, of course, all for it...and the vast majority of the people he was catering to were upper class, anti-war liberals. He keeps saying that's how he would have voted had he been in the Senate...well, he doesn't really know, so I think it's wrong of him to assert that. He made a political decision to oppose the war...and it turned out that it was the right decision.
    OMG COULD A POST BE MORE WRONG THEN THIS ONE???????????? G.W. Bush and copmany had America shitless at this time and pointing fingers to those who did not support the war as not being a American! Face it non belivers he had it correct the whole time! John McCain is going to lose the next election and I will be overjoyed when it happens!

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NOR CAL
    Posts
    8,965
    vCash
    1500
    Besides

    the hero's are the ones that never made it home

    I keep forgetting about that one for some reason
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fresno
    Posts
    6,268
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post

    And I get where you are going with saying Obama was correct in his judgement. But you also must understand that no one else knew he was correct until they were there and not finding anything. That is why I stated it was kind of after the fact.
    Randy, the rest of the world and weapons inspectors knew we were wrong. This is why other countries did not help us. The majority of the world knew this.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Infiltrating Hippie Southwestern Command Center
    Posts
    1,405
    vCash
    1500
    admit it or not IF obama wins it wil lonly be because

    1. people dont like bush
    2. people dont realize he plans on keeping troops in iraq just as long as mccain does
    3. white guilt
    4. mccains age
    5. people want "something non-republican" see #1
    6. he had a great speech writer

    MANY more people will vote against a republican vs voting FOR obama... so basically people who are excited that obama is gonna win is kind of like being excited that you found out your friends only like you for your looks or money...

    very shallow

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fresno
    Posts
    6,268
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    admit it or not IF obama wins it wil lonly be because

    1. people dont like bush
    2. people dont realize he plans on keeping troops in iraq just as long as mccain does
    3. white guilt
    4. mccains age
    5. people want "something non-republican" see #1
    6. he had a great speech writer

    MANY more people will vote against a republican vs voting FOR obama... so basically people who are excited that obama is gonna win is kind of like being excited that you found out your friends only like you for your looks or money...

    very shallow
    Gee if O'Bama does not win will it be because he is Black? McCain supports the war and wants to stay in Iraq, and has mainly the same economic views as Bush. Nuff said!!!!!

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NOR CAL
    Posts
    8,965
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    Randy, the rest of the world and weapons inspectors knew we were wrong. This is why other countries did not help us. The majority of the world knew this.
    Well Vet the rest of the world and UN inspectors obviously don't make decisions regarding what we do with our military. The powers that be voted to send us off to war, we now know that was a mistake.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Infiltrating Hippie Southwestern Command Center
    Posts
    1,405
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    Randy, the rest of the world and weapons inspectors knew we were wrong. This is why other countries did not help us. The majority of the world knew this.
    gee why would anyone suspect saddam of having wmd???

    1980-88: Iran-Iraq war left 150,000 to 340,000 Iraqis and 450,000 to 730,000 Iranians dead.

    1983-1988: Documented chemical attacks by Iraqi regime caused some 30,000 Iraqi and Iranian deaths.

    1988: Chemical attack on Kurdish village of Halabja killed approximately 5,000 people.

    1987-1988: Iraqi regime used chemical agents in attacks against at least 40 Kurdish villages.

    1990-91: 1,000 Kuwaitis were killed in Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

    1991: Bloody suppression of Kurdish and Shi'a uprisings in northern and southern Iraq killed at least 30,000 to 60,000. At least 2,000 Kurdish villages were destroyed during the campaign of terror.

    2001: Amnesty International report: "Victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."

    Human Rights Watch: Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurds.


    Refugees International
    : "Oppressive government policies have led to the internal displacement of 900,000 Iraqis."

    Iraq's 13 million Shiite Muslims, the majority of Iraq's population of approximately 22 million, faced severe restrictions on their religious practice.

    FBI: Iraqi government was involved in a plot to assassinate former President George Bush during his April 14-16, 1993, visit to Kuwait.

    The Iraqi regime has repeatedly refused visits by human rights monitors.

    From 1992 until 2002, Saddam prevented the U.N. Special Rapporteur from visiting Iraq.

    The Dujail Massacre of 1982
    : In July of 1982, several Shiite militants attempted to assassinate Saddam Hussein while he was riding through the city. Hussein responded by ordering the slaughter of some 148 residents, including dozens of children. This is the only war crime on which Hussein has been charged, and he will almost certainly be executed before any other charges go to trial.

    The Barzani Clan Abductions of 1983: Masoud Barzani led the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), an ethnic Kurdish revolutionary group fighting Baathist oppression. After Barzani cast his lot with the Iranians in the Iran-Iraq War, Hussein had some 8,000 members of Barzani's clan, including hundreds of women and children, abducted. It is assumed that most were slaughtered; thousands have been discovered in mass graves in southern Iraq.

    The al-Anfal Campaign: The worst human rights abuses of Hussein's tenure took place during the genocidal al-Anfal Campaign (1986-1989), in which Hussein's administration called for the extermination of every living thing--human or animal--in certain regions of the Kurdish north. All told, some 182,000 people--men, women, and children--were slaughtered, many through use of chemical weapons. The Halabja poison gas massacre of 1988 alone killed over 5,000 people. Hussein later blamed the attacks on the Iranians, and the Reagan administration, which supported Iraq in the Iran-Iraq War, helped promote this cover story.

    The Campaign Against the Marsh Arabs
    : Hussein did not limit his genocide to identifiably Kurdish groups; he also targeted the predominantly Shiite Marsh Arabs of southeastern Iraq, the direct descendants of the ancient Mesopotamians. By destroying more than 95% of the region's marshes, he effectively depleted its food supply and destroyed the entire millennia-old culture, reducing the number of Marsh Arabs from 250,000 to approximately 30,000. It is unknown how much of this population drop can be attributed to direct starvation and how much to migration, but the human cost was unquestionably high.

    Chemical Weapons Against Kurds

    As early as April 1987, the Iraqis used chemical weapons to remove Kurds from their villages in northern Iraq during the Anfal campaign. It is estimated that chemical weapons were used on approximately 40 Kurdish villages, with the largest of these attacks occurring on March 16, 1988 against the Kurdish town of Halabja.

    Beginning in the morning on March 16, 1988 and continuing all night, the Iraqis rained down volley after volley of bombs filled with a deadly mixture of mustard gas and nerve agents on Halabja. Immediate effects of the chemicals included blindness, vomiting, blisters, convulsions, and asphyxiation. Approximately 5,000 women, men, and children died within days of the attacks. Long-term effects included permanent blindness, cancer, and birth defects. An estimated 10,000 lived, but live daily with the disfigurement and sicknesses from the chemical weapons.

    Saddam Hussein's cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid was directly in charge of the chemical attacks against the Kurds, earning him the epithet, "Chemical Ali."



    hundred of thousands were killed by this man.... he had months to get rid of the WMD before we invaded.. its like the cops telling you 2 months in advance they are going to raid your home... you would deff get rid or your weed by then!
    Last edited by Doc Fluty; 08-14-2008 at 07:13 PM.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Athens-UGA
    Posts
    1,664
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    OMG COULD A POST BE MORE WRONG THEN THIS ONE???????????? G.W. Bush and copmany had America shitless at this time and pointing fingers to those who did not support the war as not being a American! Face it non belivers he had it correct the whole time! John McCain is going to lose the next election and I will be overjoyed when it happens!
    How is that rediculous. Its exactly what happened. Anybody who has studied it would know. And quite frankly, im happy he was outspoken about the war, whether it was for political gain or b/c that's what he truely believed. IMO george was just falling in daddy's footsteps and iraq will probably go down as one of the dumbest stregic events planned by a president. But barack stance against it still doenst qualify him to be president. The man never even had a real job.... just taking money from the government like all the other morons in washington.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    4,957
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    He didn't KNOW he was right until after the fact

    so he was actually wrong initially
    he didn't know he was right? How did he not know? He knew it was wrong, smelled fishy, like fear mongering and spin. So basically he called it like he saw it and was right. that's good judgement and instinct, that's leadership

    wow, at least he's right when he's not sure

    being right is still better than being wrong, correct? or did I miss something?

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •