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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    oh boy...

    you believe in god but wont stand up because it is not inclusive of the views of the country?

    are you serious?

    by far people in this country believe in a god.. whether christian or other most people DO believe in some god... so your whole single person protest is ridiculous
    Yes. I am serious. I, as a reasonable person of sound mind, recognize the minority in this country as human and should be respected.

    10% of this nation doesn't believe in god (give or take). You're right, that is a minority. Roughly 13% of the nation is black, according to the 2000 census. Should we pledge to only white people too? I mean they ARE the huge majority, so according to your logic no one else's opinion matters.


    and his hand placement is important IF you take it in context with YOUR OPINION of the rev wright issues, his wifes "never been proud of my country before" remarks, his muslim upbringing (predominantly Muslim schooling), his talking down about America in berlin and to a 7 year old girl and other obama lies...

    like when he claimed that the Kennedy administration paid for his Kenyan father to travel to America on a student scholarship and therefore was responsible for his “very existence”. However the first march on Selma took place on March 7, 1965. Obama would have been about three and half years old at that time. For some reason the media never did the math on this...

    so when you take this and other things into CONTEXT.. then you can see why some people (like me) would rather trust a POW war hero over a street organizer
    LOL @ any of those things having to do with his hands being at his waist instead of at his heart. We're not talking about his schooling, his former pastor whose words were misinterpreted, or the Kennedy administration when Obama was a child.
    We're talking about the way he stands during the pledge of allegiance.
    Who the hell cares? Really? He's still showing respect to the flag. This is making an Everest out of a molehill that isn't even a molehill.

    +1, if you want to talk about context let's talk about the "terrorist fist jab." LOL. Get outta here.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    i didnt call him a muslim... i just stated that he went to a predominatly muslim school during his upbringing.. which he admits in his book... you would know if you read it

    and i didnt say anything bad about it... i said the hand over the heart thing could be taken the wrong way if you put it in context (which a lot of voters will) with his upbringing and his wifes statements and his pastors and so on
    Speaking of context, the way you said it shows the negative connotation you chose to spin it in.

    Obama did not "admit" to going to a predominantly Muslim school, because it is not a crime or a mistake to do so.
    To admit to something is to accept blame. There is no blame to be taken for a Muslim schooling because being Muslim is not wrong.

  3. #33
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    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

    I wish Barack would address what happened that day. There are number examples in the above link that shows him respecting the flag and reciting the Pledge of Allegance and National Anthem.

    There are time when I attend games or have coached games where my mind is somewhere else I innocently forget to place my hand on my heart.

    I have seen a number of photos of John McCain without a flag pin on. I don't even own a flag pin.

    I respect McCain's service to this country. I love the photo of him on crutches meeting Richard Nixon. I don't question his patriotistism. But simply it takes more than being a patriot to be a good President. Bush proved that.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearAD View Post
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp

    I wish Barack would address what happened that day. There are number examples in the above link that shows him respecting the flag and reciting the Pledge of Allegance and National Anthem.

    There are time when I attend games or have coached games where my mind is somewhere else I innocently forget to place my hand on my heart.

    I have seen a number of photos of John McCain without a flag pin on. I don't even own a flag pin.

    I respect McCain's service to this country. I love the photo of him on crutches meeting Richard Nixon. I don't question his patriotistism. But simply it takes more than being a patriot to be a good President. Bush proved that.
    I generally have no issue with anything you said and agree with your premise.

    The one question I have is "Bush proved that"? When was Bush considered a "patriot"? One of the big issue's for Bush was his questionable National Guard service, one step above being a draft dodger. It was widely belived/charged that he used his privellage to get out of going to Vietnam. There were questions about his National Guard service, including the CBS story that lead to Dan Rather getting fired. It's a small point of contention, but I think that factually you are incorrect about this.

    Am remembering this incorrectly?

  5. #35
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    I gave Bush a pass on all of his numerous military transgressions. He wears a pin and puts his hand on his heart which apparently is the only qualities you need to be a patriot.

  6. #36
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    In my homeroom, our principal comes over the loudspeaker and says the pledge, and i'm normally the only one who stands. Not only do I stand but i'll say the words along with her. People sometimes act like its not cool, but 2 years ago someone said something to me about it (same people in HR) and I tore him apart about his lack of respect towards the country and how he basically doesn't do it to be cool.

    You may not like the choice of words, but its not about that, the Pledge is a symbollic anthem about respecting your country and what it stands for. Not standing up and respecting that is just disrespectful to those who died for your freedom.

    The worst part is, you are allowed not to stand. Do you know why?

    You live in a free country, that doesn't force you to stand up and say it.

    Yet some of you won't give respect to the country that allows you to show disrespect. Baffling

    Like talking sports?? follow me on twitter @mikechernow

  7. #37
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    Wait, what an awful argument FearAD.

    As if Obama would notice everyone else start to get up and speak and he would get up but it would slip his mind to say the pledge. Like he wouldn't notice that everyone else is doing it? That's kinda a bad defense.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigleyboy25 View Post
    The following story is true and taken from a speech that John McCain gave before the 1988 Republican National Convention.






    Where's your hand Barack!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    heres a video of that even... he doesn't raise his hand over the entire national anthem

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU9iCANi02o
    BFD! You Republicans are more concerned with image over substance. If you measure loyality to America with a hand over a heart or a flag pin IMO you are a moron.

  9. #39
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    get over yourself

  10. #40
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    So, Barack not placing his hand over his heart implies he is not patriotic?

    So then, is every American who has ever stood at attention while attending a sporting event, played in one, or was anywhere where the pledge of allegiance or anthem were played not patriotic? Because I sure as hell am patriotic and care much about our nation's ideals (and not any of the ******** political agenda that is inherit in the media/government addresses). I will always support our troops (but not necessarily the wars they fight). I will never be unsupportive of our constitution (as long as it is not adjusted in unjust manners). And I will always pay attention to presidential candidates and their ideals in hopes of their ideas being more beneficial that that of their predecessor's.

    And what about politicians/general public wearing flag pins/garments. According to the flag code, "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel." So, by wearing flag pins, I believe that that makes the wearers unpatriotic.


    ...or by your logic anyway.

  11. #41
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    first off debo, who are you talking too?

    second noone is saying he isnt patriotic JUST cause he doesnt put his hand on his heart ONE TIME... that would be stupid

    I stated that its important if you put it together with other instances and you draw your OWN INDIVIDUAL reasoning for it

    heres what i wrote:
    and his hand placement is important IF you take it in context with YOUR OPINION of the rev wright issues, his wifes "never been proud of my country before" remarks, his muslim upbringing (predominantly Muslim schooling), his talking down about America in berlin and to a 7 year old girl and other obama lies...

    like when he claimed that the Kennedy administration paid for his Kenyan father to travel to America on a student scholarship and therefore was responsible for his “very existence”. However the first march on Selma took place on March 7, 1965. Obama would have been about three and half years old at that time. For some reason the media never did the math on this...

    so when you take this and other things into CONTEXT.. then you can see why some people (like me) would rather trust a POW war hero over a street organizer
    so in essence what i was saying was that if you PERSONALLY dont like the rev wright issues, his wifes "never been proud of my country before" remarks, his muslim upbringing (predominantly Muslim schooling), his talking down about America in berlin and to a 7 year old girl and other obama lies...

    then his hand placement IS a big deal.. to you

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    first off debo, who are you talking too?

    second noone is saying he isnt patriotic JUST cause he doesnt put his hand on his heart ONE TIME... that would be stupid

    I stated that its important if you put it together with other instances and you draw your OWN INDIVIDUAL reasoning for it

    heres what i wrote:


    so in essence what i was saying was that if you PERSONALLY dont like the rev wright issues, his wifes "never been proud of my country before" remarks, his muslim upbringing (predominantly Muslim schooling), his talking down about America in berlin and to a 7 year old girl and other obama lies...

    then his hand placement IS a big deal.. to you
    post #31

  13. #43
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    This is the basis of your arguement - "Where's your hand, Barack?" My response is that he doesn't need to have his damn hand over his heart when the pledge of allegiance is being recited. It's a personal choice IMO, and his choice to stand, facing the flag in apparent admiration is not disrespectful at all.

    I'm not disagreeing that the Reverend Wright issues or his wife's comment aren't important, because they could be...to you. His wife's statement could have been misinterpreted. People say things all the time in a manner which may sound as if it means one thing but was intended to portray an entirely different message. With the Rev. Wright comments, I'm not going to lie and say I know much about them, because I don't and am somewhat indifferent. What one man preaches to another does not mean that that other man automatically believes those ideals.

    You seem to be nitpicking one little detail and pulling from other things that are generally unrelated to say "tie this **** togehter and this man is not fit to be president!" What makes McCain any more fit to be president? (And for the record, I do not support one more than the other. I will likely be a last minute voter because neither stands out more than the other IMO) Maybe McCain shouldn't be president because he can't give a speech or gives that goofy *** smile every time he's on the podium. Maybe Barack shouldn't be president because his middle name is Hussein. Regardless, either of these candidates couldn't do a worse job than Captain Incompetence.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    first off debo, who are you talking too?

    second noone is saying he isnt patriotic JUST cause he doesnt put his hand on his heart ONE TIME... that would be stupid

    I stated that its important if you put it together with other instances and you draw your OWN INDIVIDUAL reasoning for it

    heres what i wrote:


    so in essence what i was saying was that if you PERSONALLY dont like the rev wright issues, his wifes "never been proud of my country before" remarks, his muslim upbringing (predominantly Muslim schooling), his talking down about America in berlin and to a 7 year old girl and other obama lies...

    then his hand placement IS a big deal.. to you
    ...but you're implying that with the caption for the picture you posted.

    Anyone can put anything together in any way they wanted to draw conclusions. Let's see, I drive my car on a daily basis, I purchase Nike shoes, and couple that with forgetting to put the seat down after I piss. So, in essence, I'm supporting the release of massive amounts of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere, abuse of child labor practices, and am sexist toward women...and all of these acts are premeditated of course, right?

    I'm sure Barack didn't support his Reverend's or his wife's comments in the context which they were taken, just like his hand "misplacement" wasn't a demonstration of his other beliefs. I doubt that a man not proud of his country with extremist ideals could run for office and make it down to the final two candidates without serious uproar and media spin.

  15. #45
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    Many people actually don't put there hand over their heart. Some people do as he did, and clasp their hands and use it as time to reflect and pray.

    As for this line:

    This article, yes. I was refering to McCains service and decision to refuse preferential treatment and stay as a POW with his fellow soilders. Would you like to dispute that?
    Once they realized who his father was, he was relocated to a hospital that was mainly used for Vietnamese officers where he remained until his return home.
    oh my god! did you hear? Alex Rodriguez left a floater and didn't do a double flush!!! someone alert the media this must be news!

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