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  1. #1
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    What, if any, effect will the Geogria/Russia conflict have on the race?

    I was just wondering how people thought this might affect the race, if at all. Obviously the situation is fluid over there and is changing all the time. Just wanted to get people's thoughts on this issue.



    I guess my first thought would be that this issue could potentially be a slight help to McCain because he is "stronger" on National Security/Foreign Policy based on the polls. I don't know how much it would help, if at all. I guess a lot of that could depend on how the situation plays out and how big of an issue it becomes.

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    I actually think this helps Obama. This situation is showing that neither Georgia or Russia really have much respect for US opinion on issues since our leaders judgement, opinion, priorities, and motives have been more than questionable and proven to be terrible with the Iraq invasion. This is an administration that is pretty much bankrupt on worldwide credibility.

    Therefore, we could elect a guy who stood by poor decisions from W time and time again, or a guy who brings out 200,000 supporters in a foreign country, and no protestors. Judging by the fact that russia has sarkozy in moscow today to listen to him, I would venture a guess that McCain's opinion and thoughts are viewed down there with W's while a proven open mind like obama would be welcomed by both sides in many conflicts to get to the resolution. It's up to the american people to make this connection instead of just buying the bs line that republicans are better on security despite a piss poor track record on foreign policy decisions especially in times of war.

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    i think it will have a big effect.

    it will show that the world is a dangerous place and that russia is on its way to getting back to where it used to be.

    and should we have a street organizer as our leader when russia has a kgb member as its head would they take us as more likely to be a pushover? or think that obama wouldnt stand up to them as mccain would

    in fact i just read an article that shows how the different campaigns handled the action Russia took... and addresses this issue

    http://www.suntimes.com/news/huntley...hunt12.article

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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    I actually think this helps Obama. This situation is showing that neither Georgia or Russia really have much respect for US opinion on issues since our leaders judgement, opinion, priorities, and motives have been more than questionable and proven to be terrible with the Iraq invasion. This is an administration that is pretty much bankrupt on worldwide credibility.

    begin spin....

    Therefore, we could elect a guy who stood by poor decisions from W time and time again, or a guy who brings out 200,000 supporters in a foreign country, and no protestors. Judging by the fact that russia has sarkozy in moscow today to listen to him, I would venture a guess that McCain's opinion and thoughts are viewed down there with W's while a proven open mind like obama would be welcomed by both sides in many conflicts to get to the resolution. It's up to the american people to make this connection instead of just buying the bs line that republicans are better on security despite a piss poor track record on foreign policy decisions especially in times of war.
    lol... and you talk about me spinning stuff

    Putin is the head of russia, make no mistake about it. and they did it when the world attention was on the olympics. Russia doesnt care about whos in office in america... it wanted georgia to know that its recent request to be a part of NATO wont be taken lightly.

    this is about russia getting back land, the pipeline and Russia returning to a superpower... thats it
    Georgia is a crucial link in a three country energy corridor vital to Western Europe's oil and gas supply. The 2 billion pipeline is the only major conduit for Central Asian resources not under Russian control.

    The Kremlin under Vladimir Putin, Russia's former president and now prime minister, used gas exports to Europe as a tool of foreign policy.

    Reduced supplies to eastern Europe forced Russia's neighbours to curtail pro-Western ambitions. Western Europe, especially Germany, is dangerously vulnerable to reduced supplies from Russia at times of political tension.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-missiles.html
    Last edited by Doc Fluty; 08-12-2008 at 04:45 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Fluty View Post
    lol... and you talk about me spinning stuff

    Putin is the head of russia, make no mistake about it. and they did it when the world attention was on the olympics. Russia doesnt care about whos in office in america... it wanted georgia to know that its recent request to be a part of NATO wont be taken lightly.

    this is about russia getting back land, the pipeline and Russia returning to a supherpower... thats it


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-missiles.html
    big spin that George W and those who follow in his failed foreign policy footsteps don't have much influence on future foreign policy? Hardly! Have you ever heard the boy who cried wolf? It's common sense that when you are repeatedly wrong, people stop paying as much attention. When you are repeatedly open, people talk and listen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    big spin that George W and those who follow in his failed foreign policy footsteps don't have much influence on future foreign policy? Hardly! Have you ever heard the boy who cried wolf? It's common sense that when you are repeatedly wrong, people stop paying as much attention. When you are repeatedly open, people talk and listen.
    I think you are going a little overboard with this. I think that while W is obviously not popular at home, and to a lessor extent isn't the favorite of foreign governments, I think it's a huge reach to imply that the reason this is happening is because the world (or in this case Russia) has lost respect/fear for the US.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    I think you are going a little overboard with this. I think that while W is obviously not popular at home, and to a lessor extent isn't the favorite of foreign governments, I think it's a huge reach to imply that the reason this is happening is because the world (or in this case Russia) has lost respect/fear for the US.
    I'm not saying or even thinking that the reason for the conflict has anything to do with the US. It does not. However being ignored and shrugged off on the world stage is a direct result of incompetence being proved in past decisions. Those incompetent decisions and their supporters are easy to follow through the timeline of events. The people who are aware those decisions listen to those who make smart decisions and ignore those who don't. Therefore, no one is listening to GW or McCain, and they are all more open to a fresh outlook from american foreign policy. Especially since failure is how the policies are viewed abroad.
    Last edited by PHX-SOXFAN; 08-12-2008 at 05:25 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    I actually think this helps Obama. This situation is showing that neither Georgia or Russia really have much respect for US opinion on issues since our leaders judgement, opinion, priorities, and motives have been more than questionable and proven to be terrible with the Iraq invasion. This is an administration that is pretty much bankrupt on worldwide credibility.

    Therefore, we could elect a guy who stood by poor decisions from W time and time again, or a guy who brings out 200,000 supporters in a foreign country, and no protestors. Judging by the fact that russia has sarkozy in moscow today to listen to him, I would venture a guess that McCain's opinion and thoughts are viewed down there with W's while a proven open mind like obama would be welcomed by both sides in many conflicts to get to the resolution. It's up to the american people to make this connection instead of just buying the bs line that republicans are better on security despite a piss poor track record on foreign policy decisions especially in times of war.
    Listen, I am all for the most popular candidate in Germany being the next US President. Everone knows that we self-hating Americans should listen more to the wonderful Euros, we sure can't handle things on our own. I can't think of any better reason to elect someone. Wait, wait, a better reason just hit me...change. Nothing specific, just change. Electing a 1976 Ford Pinto President would be change, so I guess I am for that too.

    In all seriousness, McCain kills Obama on foreign policy experience. There is really no debate. You can hate the Iraq war all you want, but don't mistake what you and your play pals think with what Russia is thinking. Russia doesn't want Georgia in NATO. Russia does want Obama President. Not because he is a rock star, but because they think he is a ***** for all the carping about Iraq and all of the coddling of Iran and Cuba, etc.

    Notice how everyone got real quiet about how Gore should have been President after 9/11 happened? That is because they were glad that a tough-talking R was the Pres instead of a chicken-stuff D who would have blamed it on global warming or our lack of charm overseas (or possibly Manbearpig).

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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    I'm not saying or even thinking that the reason for the conflict has anything to do with the US. It does not. However being ignored and shrugged off on the world stage is a direct result of incompetence being proved in past decisions. Those incompetent decisions and their supporters are easy to follow through the timeline of events. The people who are aware those decisions listen to those who make smart decisions and ignore those who don't. Therefore, no one is listening to GW or McCain, and they are all more open to a fresh outlook from american foreign policy. Especially since failure is how the policies are viewed abroad.
    Well I'm glad to hear that's not what you were suggesting. How exactly are we being shrugged off? I saw the president of Georgia talking to Wolf Blitzer of CNN pleading for US help. I think Russia is taking a calculated risk, thinking they can grab the valuable land back, while only having their actions condemed or perhaps facing some sactions. Either way, I'm not sure how that gets you to the point that we are being "ignored and shrugged off on the world stage" or to the point that it benifits Obama.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eastside Scott View Post
    Listen, I am all for the most popular candidate in Germany being the next US President. Everone knows that we self-hating Americans should listen more to the wonderful Euros, we sure can't handle things on our own. I can't think of any better reason to elect someone. Wait, wait, a better reason just hit me...change. Nothing specific, just change. Electing a 1976 Ford Pinto President would be change, so I guess I am for that too.

    In all seriousness, McCain kills Obama on foreign policy experience. There is really no debate. You can hate the Iraq war all you want, but don't mistake what you and your play pals think with what Russia is thinking. Russia doesn't want Georgia in NATO. Russia does want Obama President. Not because he is a rock star, but because they think he is a ***** for all the carping about Iraq and all of the coddling of Iran and Cuba, etc.

    Notice how everyone got real quiet about how Gore should have been President after 9/11 happened? That is because they were glad that a tough-talking R was the Pres instead of a chicken-stuff D who would have blamed it on global warming or our lack of charm overseas (or possibly Manbearpig).
    and as most americans look back now they realize anyone could have pointed to a map and said to bomb Afghanistan and get rid of the terrorism promoting taliban and avoided having GW in place to completely screw up Iraq and lie about it this entire time.

    Being tough talking is one thing, but talking about something intelligently, with the correct information, and with a clear understanding is completely different. If you could add those things into the equation, you get good fact based decisions instead of fearmongering, overreacting, ego driven, ignorant ones.

    Also, Obama does not coddle Cuba and Iran, that is conservative blowhard spin, nothing fact based there. Just because he doesn't spew fearmongering crap and is open to solving the problems without a war and speaking intelligently doesn't make it coddling.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    Well I'm glad to hear that's not what you were suggesting. How exactly are we being shrugged off? I saw the president of Georgia talking to Wolf Blitzer of CNN pleading for US help. I think Russia is taking a calculated risk, thinking they can grab the valuable land back, while only having their actions condemed or perhaps facing some sactions. Either way, I'm not sure how that gets you to the point that we are being "ignored and shrugged off on the world stage" or to the point that it benifits Obama.
    i'm also not saying americans as a whole are being ignored. I'm saying GW and his foreign policy backers have very little credibility as far as the rest of the world goes. there is very little chance they accomplish anything diplomatically. That's what happens when someone gets viewed as an idiot, they get ignored.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    i'm also not saying americans as a whole are being ignored. I'm saying GW and his foreign policy backers have very little credibility as far as the rest of the world goes. there is very little chance they accomplish anything diplomatically. That's what happens when someone gets viewed as an idiot, they get ignored.
    Well I think you are still over playing the hand, as it were. I don't think Bush international credibility is quite as low as you think. Anyways, I do agree that I wouldn't expect Bush to accomplish too much on this issue, allthough I would attribute that more to the fact he is a lame duck president.

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    the facts are that people hate bush. they think he stole the election from gore, is a warmongeror, doesnt care about the planet, responsible for katrina, jena 6, poverty in africa, burning of the rain forest, and cancer

    ill say this slow.... Russia wants an oil pipeline, land, respect and doesnt care who is in office in America

    this is not about bush,this is about putin... its about how when russia was broke some people formed new countries. and now that with the money they have earned from oil and natural gas.. they want mother russia as a superpower again.

    and if you dont think Putin WANTS obama to win your in denial. Putin will own obama and just do what he wants with his new financed military.

    The street activist wont hold a candle to the KGB LT Colonel.

    heres a lil background on Putin

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...agov/putin.htm

    pay attention to the parts about Nato and such

    Fiercely patriotic, Putin once said he could not read a book by a Soviet defector because "I don't read books by people who have betrayed the Motherland."

  14. #14
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    I don't think enough Americans a) know Georgia's also a country or b) know what's going on right now in that part of the world for it to affect voters.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

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    It won't do anything at all because Americans have no clue:
    1. Where Georgia is
    2. That Georgia's even a country
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Madison
    "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."
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