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  1. #31
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    Im with you PadresSon. Its just a door I dont want opened.

  2. #32
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    Makes it easier to track transactions, travel, arrests, etc... like I already spelled out.
    Right. But how does "making it easier" make it more of a violation of privacy?

    They can already do all the things you mentioned.
    Yeah, a minimum set of standards determined by the federal government and connected to a national network that allows the federal government and all state govts to look up your information
    Uhh...yeah. What's the problem with that?
    gcoll, you're a more trusting man than I am.
    Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean that I trust the government.

    I just really distrust conspiracy websites. And I also go by "Hanlon's Razor" in a lot of cases. "Don't attribute to malice, what can be explained by stupidity"

    It will definitely need to be up to date if you want to drive, fly, buy a gun, buy beer, vote, etc
    I don't buy that.

    yes, it is
    Uhhh....no it's not. The new form of the ID does not act as a social security card.

    This is going beyond a simple scan. It's a system that is being established so that the government can access FAR more information about you than ever before with the simple swipe of a card.
    No. There is not FAR more information about anything.

    It's the same information that's on your driver's license.

    Yes, and as of now, it's not legal for the govt to look up most of that info unless they have just cause (although in many cases they do it anyway). The ID card will make it easier and will access more information.
    What more information?

    OMG the Federal government will have your social security number!! OH MY GOD. Seriously, if you can't see the flaw in being scared of that, I can't help you. (hint...the government gave you the number in the first place)

    Your driver's license is not tracked by a federal computer network that is accessible by all 50 states.
    I think it can.....if I get pulled over in Arkansas with an Arizona license....I'm pretty sure they can pull up info on me.

    Not yet. People tend to forget that once upon a time a social security card was issued for the sole purpose of collecting social security. Now you can't take a crap at an Applebee's without your social security number.
    Yeah. And it's ****ing terrible too, isn't it? It's practically 1984 out there at Applebee's.

    The Patriot Act is a gross misuse of government power
    And that's a legitimate point of debate.

    But I also believe that there's a dangerous abuse of power through fear tactics going on
    And what would you call the language people use when opposed to the Real ID?

    That's not scare tactics?

    Oh, and by the way 39 state governments have passed resolutions opposing the real ID act.
    Really? I thought those were just states asking for extensions on the time limit.
    So, how are you going to argue that you don't want cameras in your house?
    Because your home is private.

    Because there are differences in the law between rights and privileges.
    How many people are visiting nuclear power plants?
    Uhhh...I don't know if you know this....but a lot of people are paranoid about power plant security. Paranoid of terrorists attempting an attack on a power plant.
    Are we having a big problem ID'ing people who are boarding airplanes?
    No. But again. If you don't see the connection between terrorism, and airlines....

    Say somebody is on the "no fly list"...but manages to forge someone's ID, or passport? If that happens....the next day millions of people would be saying "Why weren't more steps taken to make sure that there is more security with those forms of identification?"

    I don't feel comfortable AT ALL passing this piece of legislation without knowing what "future rulemakings" are coming after we're all carrying these cards around.
    Then don't carry the card.
    Last edited by gcoll; 08-16-2008 at 03:31 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    Apples to oranges. I don't remember that being part of the your description of the magic powers that an ID card holds.

    You were whining that this magical, two inch by three piece of laminated paper was going to give instant insight into "loans you've taken out, library books you've checked out, bank account information, traffic tickets, arrest records, health records, marriage records" which they can do right now, anyway. And yes, I have absolutely nothing to hide on those fronts. I have a couple traffic tickets, it's a fact, and I am not afraid to admit to facts that pertain to me. Not even the dreaded library books I've checked out.
    i think the guy doesn't have a problem with those things either but its more about how if we let this slide then something bigger might pass and then bigger and slowly moving into a world were everything is supervised by the government

    its like if u setting a curfew for a child if one day u say 8 then the next she asked for 8:10 you say ok, then the next day she ask for another 10 min eventually if u don't stop the asking it will keep on going till whenever she wants which could be 1 or 2 or 3 or no curfew.

    the way i see it its the same with the government right now if they government were to say hey were giving u id cards which are connected to a network to keep better track of ur data but at the same time we can pull up ur file for no reason whatsoever we would all protest but since they started things slowly with the patriot act then the id card maybe other things will fallow which seem very scary to me ...idk about you but i dont want that

  4. #34
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    LOL... The "Big Bad GoVment", is at it again... You Libs crack me up. I do like the Story response in the middle. So who's your dealer?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Schmooze View Post
    Im with you PadresSon. Its just a door I dont want opened.
    Quote Originally Posted by cubsofchicago View Post
    the way i see it its the same with the government right now if they government were to say hey were giving u id cards which are connected to a network to keep better track of ur data but at the same time we can pull up ur file for no reason whatsoever we would all protest but since they started things slowly with the patriot act then the id card maybe other things will fallow which seem very scary to me ...idk about you but i dont want that
    I'm glad I'm not the only one.

    And I'm not a lib, RogerRomo. Quite the opposite. Not sure if you know this, but CONSERVATIVES are supposed to be the ones that stand for small government, states rights, and individual freedoms. The Real ID act violates all three of those ideals.

  6. #36
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    ^^^I was just gonna say that. While 9/11 conspiracy theorists are often on the left, not always. And when it comes to faith in big government, it usually comes from the right. Disliking a strong federal government (except, more recently, in terms of national defense) is typical conservative.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  7. #37
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    ^^ Thanks for acknowledging that, BB. It's disheartening to see the Republican party abandon many of its conservative ideals. This is the reason I consider myself an independent (most closely aligned with Libertarianism, but not truly a Libertarian).

    EDIT: And I just want to be clear that while I distrust the government's responsibility to handle and/or need to have a Real ID system, I am NOT a 9/11 conspiracy person. I can't stand "truthers".
    Last edited by Padres Son; 08-18-2008 at 07:00 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padres Son View Post
    I'm glad I'm not the only one.

    And I'm not a lib, RogerRomo. Quite the opposite. Not sure if you know this, but CONSERVATIVES are supposed to be the ones that stand for small government, states rights, and individual freedoms. The Real ID act violates all three of those ideals.
    I guess you missed my humor.

  9. #39
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    ^^ It's weird that the Left never cared about small government or fiscal responsibility until Bush. Kinda like how they never opposed lying by a president until Bush
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    ^^ It's weird that the Left never cared about small government or fiscal responsibility until Bush. Kinda like how they never opposed lying by a president until Bush
    Dude what are you talking about? Clinton ("the left") was the one who created a budget surplus. Bush immediately took us in the reverse direction upon taking office (as his two Republican predecessors, Ronnie and Daddy) had done before him, sinking us deeper and deeper into debt and bankrupting the U.S. Treasury.

    In the last 28 years, the 8 with a Democrat in the White House were by far the most fiscally responsible, and the 20 with Republicans in the White House by far the most fiscally irresponsible. It's not even close.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

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  11. #41
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    The numbers look like this. It's quite clear.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

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