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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    Has McCain ever "runned a business?"

    George W. Bush "runned" a few into the ground before he was president, does that count?
    which is why i said i preferred romney or bloomberg..... and daddy bush is the one that gave george all those businesses, so no i dont consider bush a successful business owner

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Actually, there is. The way that's not lying:

    Obama is NOT a socialist.



    Who's pushing this "socialist" label, anyways? Rush? I see it pop up all the time here, and all it makes me wonder is a) whose lies are these posters repeating and b) don't they know they're making themselves look foolish by advertising the fact that they apparently have no understanding of socialism or democracy?


    Go to your local bookstore, people, and pick up something like "Political Science 101" if you want to be able to understand the labels you're slapping around so casually as if they were indisputably true.


    Pretty soon here I'm going to have to say something painfully honest and then give myself an infraction for it and edit my own post.
    dude i study this all day. i am getting my major in political science and international affairs, so i know more about politics that most people do in this country. Obama may not be a full blown socialist, but he practices socialist ideas... Taking from those who are successful and giving to those who arent is a socialist idea.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    And who runs the lottery? The state.
    and the people... cant have a lottery if no one buys the tickets... right?

    such an incredible simplistic idea and yet we are the only state that does it..

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Actually, there is. The way that's not lying:

    Obama is NOT a socialist.



    Who's pushing this "socialist" label, anyways? Rush? I see it pop up all the time here, and all it makes me wonder is a) whose lies are these posters repeating and b) don't they know they're making themselves look foolish by advertising the fact that they apparently have no understanding of socialism or democracy?


    Go to your local bookstore, people, and pick up something like "Political Science 101" if you want to be able to understand the labels you're slapping around so casually as if they were indisputably true.


    Pretty soon here I'm going to have to say something painfully honest and then give myself an infraction for it and edit my own post.
    haha come on man, what else would you call his agenda?

    How about government interference into private corporations and taking windfall profits from oil companies or re-distribution of the wealth? I believe these things qualify.

    Government run health care IS a socialistic program, and it does not work for social security as it is going bankrupt.

    The fact that he wants to grow a big government to have big control and regulation in our lives is also a factor in socialism

    Obama aspires to hold some or all of the basic industries of our society, ( ie; oil, construction, communications and medicine, etc.) should be under government ownership or authority

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Man View Post
    haha come on man, what else would you call his agenda?
    Civilized.

    But it's not socialist.

  6. #51
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    Everyone having the same health care is pretty socialist if you ask me.

    People who work hard for their money and are rich are the ones that will be hurting with a lot of Obama's ideas.

    Its not fair that some people are poor, but its just as unfair to take money from people who worked hard for it.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHief_0_o_Wahoo View Post
    Everyone having the same health care is pretty socialist if you ask me.

    People who work hard for their money and are rich are the ones that will be hurting with a lot of Obama's ideas.

    Its not fair that some people are poor, but its just as unfair to take money from people who worked hard for it.
    But that's not socialism. And taxes are paid in conservative countries around the world. Sharing wealth isn't unfair, in fact it's one of the great tenets of world religions ... it's certainly a judeo-christian ideal:

    "Be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land" (Deut. 15:11)
    There's nothing radical, evil or new about the idea of sharing wealth.
    Last edited by ink; 08-10-2008 at 03:59 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    But that's not socialism. And taxes are paid in conservative countries around the world. Sharing wealth isn't unfair, in fact it's one of the great tenets of world religions ... it's certainly a judeo-christian ideal. There's nothing radical, evil or new about the idea of sharing wealth.
    It's not right though. It just isn't what our country is made of, we should strive to become rich to become successful to say the least. If we tax the big business and if we tax the family with more money why would we want to work hard to get there. Instead you can work half of what that person works and still make relatively the same salary. That doesn't make sense if you ask me, no matter what you say to that it's not right period.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHief_0_o_Wahoo View Post
    It's not right though. It just isn't what our country is made of, we should strive to become rich to become successful to say the least. If we tax the big business and if we tax the family with more money why would we want to work hard to get there. Instead you can work half of what that person works and still make relatively the same salary. That doesn't make sense if you ask me, no matter what you say to that it's not right period.
    What Obama is proposing is hardly earth-shattering. There's nothing unjust at all about it. Quite the opposite. There is so much fear of improvement and change in the USA. It's really surprising.
    Last edited by ink; 08-10-2008 at 02:18 PM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    What Obama is proposing is hardly earth-shattering. There's nothing unjust at all about it. Quite the opposite. There is so much fear of improvement and change in the USA. It's really surprising.
    His economic plan of helping small business isn't that good. Big business is what runs this country.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHief_0_o_Wahoo View Post
    His economic plan of helping small business isn't that good. Big business is what runs this country.
    Again, not a radical concept to help small businesses. Nothing very threatening there. But definitely beneficial for the US citizens that run those businesses.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Again, not a radical concept to help small businesses run by US citizens. Nothing very threatening there.
    Actually it is because a lot of the big business will just continue to go over seas, because the tax on big business. We can't run on small businesses just doesn't make a big enough impact on the economy.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHief_0_o_Wahoo View Post
    Actually it is because a lot of the big business will just continue to go over seas, because the tax on big business. We can't run on small businesses just doesn't make a big enough impact on the economy.
    Again, fear. The Republicans thrive on it.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Again, fear. The Republicans thrive on it.
    It's logic though, you up the tax on big business what do you think you would do? Move to a country with hardly any tax, you still can sell your product in the U.S.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHief_0_o_Wahoo View Post
    It's logic though, you up the tax on big business what do you think you would do? Move to a country with hardly any tax, you still can sell your product in the U.S.
    I think the point is that the USA has so much wealth, it can afford to find fairer ways to share that wealth without any real risk to the economy. DenButsu started a thread with a good cartoon that showed the deficits created by all the recent Republican administrations, matched up with the surpluses created in the Clinton Democratic years. Help me out Den, I can't find the thread. Despite the fear-mongering approach the right always stoops to, it would appear that it's much more dangerous to have a Republican run economy than a Dem run economy.

    Obama's ideas are still capitalist ideas. Both the Democrats and Republicans are capitalist parties. Anyone who tries to say otherwise is bluffing or worse. The benefits of some of these ideas would far outweigh the relatively small adjustments needed. And if big business has such poor social and patriotic values that they would abandon their own country, that is really what has to be questioned.

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