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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    well that is fine as well, I am sure there are more out there that feel that way


    judging buy the way Obama has out paced McCains donations shows that there are probably just as many folks on the upside of that bracket for Obama
    Right. Most people aren't voting just for tax cuts.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    Right. Most people aren't voting just for tax cuts.
    Agreed. I can't find the article, but despite how Obama likes to talk about all the small contributions that have funded his campaign, his biggest donors are companies like Citigroup and Smith Barney just like any other canidate.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    Agreed. I can't find the article, but despite how Obama likes to talk about all the small contributions that have funded his campaign, his biggest donors are companies like Citigroup and Smith Barney just like any other canidate.
    The point, however, is that he's gotten more individual contributions than any other candidate in history. Something like 2 million different people have donated to his campaign. And the bulk of people who have donated, have given him under $100. So it shows that he's getting people involved who clearly haven't ever really been involved in politics before.

    Of course he's getting max money from big time players. I don't think he denies that. He does make a point of saying that he won't take anything from any lobby firm.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    hey hannity, show me where he said "they are going to scare you away because I'm black". he never once said those words. the right wing spin artists put that interpretation on it, but that is not what he said. I find what he said to be more of a counter against the muslim smears. so that shouldn't "rub you the wrong way", unless your listening to the hannity interpretation, because obama's words were nothing of what you said they were.

    mccain is running the in the mud campaign that hillary was, same thing. don't act like it's different. it's exactly what mccain said he wouldn't do. obama has not gone down that road one bit, and you can't provide an example to prove otherwise
    They're misconstruing Obama striking back at this ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPARec32KMI

    It's pretty typical of them. Attack the guy and then make fun of him as he lashes back.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    They're misconstruing Obama striking back at this ad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPARec32KMI

    It's pretty typical of them. Attack the guy and then make fun of him as he lashes back.
    I'm thinking the overall lack of substance is going to have to change in this campaign. Both parties run the risk of turning voters off if they don't.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    I'm thinking the overall lack of substance is going to have to change in this campaign. Both parties run the risk of turning voters off if they don't.
    I think Obama is making a mistake (tactically) by refusing to talk more about the issues. Everything in the political environment favors him (bush, economy, etc.) and it just seems like he's not going to take any chances by getting into "debates" about policy. I think it's hurting him, and is the reason McCain is only a few point back in the national polls.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    I think Obama is making a mistake (tactically) by refusing to talk more about the issues. Everything in the political environment favors him (bush, economy, etc.) and it just seems like he's not going to take any chances by getting into "debates" about policy. I think it's hurting him, and is the reason McCain is only a few point back in the national polls.
    Both campaigns are playing fairly coy right now. To be fair, Obama is talking about issues, but the Republicans are ignoring that. I also think it serves them best not to talk about specifics because as you suggest everything in the political environment is toxic for them right now. So it's easier to mock Obama, his popularity and his campaign slogan.
    Last edited by ink; 08-03-2008 at 02:35 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Both campaigns are playing fairly coy right now. To be fair, Obama is talking about issues, but the Republicans are ignoring that. I also think it serves them best not to talk about specifics because as you suggest everything in the political environment is toxic for them right now. So it's easier to mock Obama, his popularity and his campaign slogan.
    I think Obama is doing McCain a favor by staying away from substances, and also not agreeing to the joint appearances that McCain had proposed. I think it plays into the conception that he's an elitist and also to the fears people have about him being an unknown.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    I think Obama is doing McCain a favor by staying away from substances, and also not agreeing to the joint appearances that McCain had proposed. I think it plays into the conception that he's an elitist and also to the fears people have about him being an unknown.
    How so? How does not appearing in a joint-town-hall -- something that hasn't been done in 150 years paint him as an elitist? He's been campaigning all across the country in roughly 10 different town halls each week. He talks about the issues and shows people how he is the candidate that's in touch with what they're going through. And then there's McCain who's content with making 4 speeches a week, one other appearance, then taking off the weekend and running attack ads on TV.

    People are beginning to view McCain as a liar. And that's a win for Obama because it detracts from McCain's reputation as a maverick. Meanwhile Obama gets to stay above the fray while building up a huge money lead. Come next month he's going to be able to unload that cash with a stream of TV ads that should give him the push he needs. Meanwhile, McCain's on pace to run out of cash before the Olympics.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    I think Obama is doing McCain a favor by staying away from substances
    Well, hopefully they're both staying away from substances.

    (j/k, sorry I couldn't resist that one - )



    But let's look at what McCain is really talking about:

    Obama/Messiah/Brittney/Paris/celebrity

    That is the one, singular, solitary message he and his camp have been drumming for the past week/10 days or so.

    That's substance?!?!?

    Sorry, but no.



    Meanwhile, what Obama is talking about - in the few spare chances he's had between defending himself from McCain's senseless, baseless, slimy attacks - is the real issues, but that's completely drowned out in the drone of the media as the networks lap up the McCain spin on Obama hook, line, and sinker. Yep, that same media that just loooooooovvvvvvves Obama.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    How so? How does not appearing in a joint-town-hall -- something that hasn't been done in 150 years paint him as an elitist? He's been campaigning all across the country in roughly 10 different town halls each week. He talks about the issues and shows people how he is the candidate that's in touch with what they're going through. And then there's McCain who's content with making 4 speeches a week, one other appearance, then taking off the weekend and running attack ads on TV.

    People are beginning to view McCain as a liar. And that's a win for Obama because it detracts from McCain's reputation as a maverick. Meanwhile Obama gets to stay above the fray while building up a huge money lead. Come next month he's going to be able to unload that cash with a stream of TV ads that should give him the push he needs. Meanwhile, McCain's on pace to run out of cash before the Olympics.
    Because Obama is the unknown in this election. The onus is on him to define himself and what he stands for. He has all ready gone back on many issues from Public Financing, Gun Control, FISA, and now drilling to name a few. I think the trend, if you look at the polls, is that McCain is ticking up slightly as he's been tied or down one in the Gallup and Rasmuessen daily tracking polls all week.

  12. #42
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    Given that he's changed his position on nearly every issue - major or minor - he has a position on, and in most cases multiple times, McCain is just as much of an unknown as Obama.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by b1e9a8r5s View Post
    Because Obama is the unknown in this election. The onus is on him to define himself and what he stands for. He has all ready gone back on many issues from Public Financing, Gun Control, FISA, and now drilling to name a few. I think the trend, if you look at the polls, is that McCain is ticking up slightly as he's been tied or down one in the Gallup and Rasmuessen daily tracking polls all week.
    That didn't answer my question at all.

    How does that paint him as an "elitist?"

    Is it because he wears $520 Italian designer shoes? Is it because he owns 6 vacation homes? Is it because his wife just helped push through a deal that gave her a little over $1 million in stock revenue while leading to thousands of layoffs in Saint Louis without giving it a second thought? Is it because he lets his family run up $500,000 monthly credit card debts?

    Oh wait, that's John McCain...
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Given that he's changed his position on nearly every issue - major or minor - he has a position on, and in most cases multiple times, McCain is just as much of an unknown as Obama.
    And especially because he has ditched the voice-of-conscience maverick role he held in the Republican party and has slipped effortlessly into GW Bush election mode ... we don't know at all what he stands for anymore. He's gone from being a credible voice in a struggling party to just another voice in a party that will do or say anything to hold onto power.

    And that brings this thread full circle back to OLD POLITICS ... exactly the kind of politics McCain insists on using ... despite his "progressive" reputation within the Republican party. Obama and his handlers have a challenge on their hands. Old politics - dirty politics - works or else no one would employ the tactics. What will Obama's strategic answer be?
    Last edited by ink; 08-03-2008 at 10:37 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013
    People are beginning to view McCain as a liar
    What do you base that on?

    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013
    That didn't answer my question at all.

    How does that paint him as an "elitist?"

    Is it because he wears $520 Italian designer shoes? Is it because he owns 6 vacation homes? Is it because his wife just helped push through a deal that gave her a little over $1 million in stock revenue while leading to thousands of layoffs in Saint Louis without giving it a second thought? Is it because he lets his family run up $500,000 monthly credit card debts?

    Oh wait, that's John McCain...
    I saw that punch line coming.

    What will Obama's strategic answer be?
    To what exactly?

    To the "he didn't visit soldiers" thing.....give a reason why you canceled the trip that holds water. He hasn't really done that.

    To the "celebrity/moses" stuff....there's really nothing he can do about that. He plays into the "moses" stuff so well with some of the dopey things he's said.

    He can always accept some town hall appearances with Jon Mccain. If he sticks to the issues in those...and Mccain is left with "You didn't visit soldiers" type stuff....it will look bad on Mccain. But there's a reason that Obama hasn't agreed to do that type of thing, and it's because he's scared. That's the only reason I can think of.

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