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  1. #1
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    The old politics is alive and well - "they'd better take steps to innoculate him".

    Obama's conundrum ...

    McCain has zeroed in on the one kernel of truth that can support a web of lies. The Obama people can say they're a transformative campaign, but at some point they have to deal with reality, however distasteful. The old politics is alive and well. If Obama acts like he's above it, he fuels the fire. If he answers in kind, he risks damaging his brand as a new kind of politician. It's the same box he was in during the primaries with Hillary Clinton. Saying this is a new era, that it's not your grandfather's electorate, that the issues of war and energy independence and economic stress trump the old-guard tactic of character destruction may be true--but why take the chance? "There are lots of ways these things become viral, and this is the Ebola virus of 2008," warns Matt Bennett, cofounder of Third Way, a centrist Democratic group. "I think his guys are brilliant; they'd better take steps to inoculate him."
    Source: Newsweek

  2. #2
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    That's why I always laugh at Obama supporters naive enough to believe in him and honestly think he'll do everything he says he will.

    He's a politician and has to deal with facts just like everyone else. He wasn't flip flopping when he kinda changed his statements on Iraq. He was facing reality.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  3. #3
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    ^That's not at all what the article is about. It's about the reality of playing dirty politics like McCain has resorted to. What they're saying is that he has a conundrum on his hands: does he stay on message and positive, or does he fight the slimy comments with slimy comments. If he stoops down to Karl Rove disciple, Steve Schmidt's level, he will give up the moral ground. If he doesn't defend himself, he will get swift-boated. That's what the inoculation comment is about. The Republican election machine is about as ruthless and dishonest as they come. Question: if McCain is willing to lie in his ads, will he also continue the habit of lying if he were to get elected? Because there really isn't anyone who claims that his ads are the truth.

    By not reacting to every groundless attack, Obama could be leading us into the new politics he promised. Or he could just be a easier target to hit.
    Last edited by ink; 08-01-2008 at 11:28 PM.

  4. #4
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    I love this kind of stuff.

    Portraying Mccain's campaign as dirty, and Obama as trying to stay above the fray...but getting dragged into it by Mccain.

    BS.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    I love this kind of stuff.

    Portraying Mccain's campaign as dirty, and Obama as trying to stay above the fray...but getting dragged into it by Mccain.

    BS.
    Provide examples of Obama sliming his opposition with clear untruths like McCain has done.

  6. #6
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    That controversial new ad for John McCain called ''Celeb,'' uses images of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton to jab at Democrat Barack Obama for being just too much of a celebrity -- and is being credited to the saavy Steve Schmidt, John McCain's chief strategist.

    But didn't Schmidt -- whose spot asks whether voters can trust such a star to govern -- manage that successful effort to re-elect the world's biggest celebrity, the action hero governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger?
    Source: SFGate

    Bit ironic ... lol.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Provide examples of Obama sliming his opposition with clear untruths like McCain has done.
    Obama hasn't really "slimed" Mccain. Mccain hasn't really "slimed Obama" apart from that "he went to the gym...instead of visiting the troops" which was a bit off base, but still....we never really got a satisfactory answer on why Obama canceled that part of his trip. But the celebrity ad got more attention, which I found odd.

    I thought that the whole "They're going to try and scare you away from me because I'm black" thing was a little off base. That definitely rubbed me the wrong way.

    So...I don't really know where I'm going with this....my main problem with Obama is that he keeps saying "I'm gonna stick to the issues" but he doesn't bring up the issues all that much other than "I am for change...and Mccain has no new ideas" type stuff.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    Mccain hasn't really "slimed Obama" ...
    Questioning patriotism is about as slimy as it gets.
    Last edited by ink; 08-02-2008 at 12:17 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Questioning patriotism is about as slimy as it gets.
    And "stop questioning my patriotism" is a pretty common dodge nowadays, when anyone says anything about you.

    Or a good old "he's not supporting the troops!!!" which is usually followed by "hey. Don't question my patriotism"
    Last edited by gcoll; 08-02-2008 at 12:31 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    And "stop questioning my patriotism" is a pretty common dodge nowadays, when anyone says anything about you.

    Or a good old "he's not supporting the troops!!!" which is usually followed by "hey. Don't question my patriotism"
    The Republicans have milked it at least since Bush #1 beat Dukakis in 1988.

    So there's good reason that it gets used as a defense. Because US elections have inexplicably been won and lost by the stupid tradition of out-patrioting each other. Let's face it, there hasn't been a presidential candidate in history who lacked for patriotism. And yet it's still made into an issue. Of course, now that I've said "never in history", ari1013 will come up with an example from the early 1900's.
    Last edited by ink; 08-02-2008 at 12:58 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    The Republicans have milked it at least since Bush #1 beat Dukakis in 1988.
    The Democrats helped. Especially Dukakis.

    But...yeah. The perception of the democrats is weakness on national defense. The Republicans use that to their advantage.

    The same way the dems use the perception of Republican weakness on economy. Remember "It's the economy stupid"?

    Let's face it, there hasn't been a presidential candidate in history who lacked for patriotism. Any yet it's still made into an issue
    Because "he lacks patriotism" is a dumbed down message, that you can use to rally morons around you.

    I believe there is a saying that says "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public". I assume nobody has ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the public either.

    ari will come up with an example from the early 1900's.
    Not 1900's....but Aaron Burr may not have been too much of a patriot. In fact, he was actually kind of crazy. Tried to form his own country I think, at one point.

    But I'm pretty sure Aaron Burr loved himself, a whole lot more than his country. The same may be said of a lot of politicians....but Aaron Burr took it to extremes.

    But in order to get at that, you'd have to actually define what "patriot" means.
    Last edited by gcoll; 08-02-2008 at 12:55 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    The Democrats helped. Especially Dukakis.

    But...yeah. The perception of the democrats is weakness on national defense. The Republicans use that to their advantage.

    The same way the dems use the perception of Republican weakness on economy. Remember "It's the economy stupid"?
    Yeah but there's nothing slimy about that.

  13. #13
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    eh, Dukakis was kind of ******** anyway
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Yeah but there's nothing slimy about that.
    What about the numerous implications by democrats, that Republicans hate poor people? Is that slimy?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    The Republicans have milked it at least since Bush #1 beat Dukakis in 1988.

    So there's good reason that it gets used as a defense. Because US elections have inexplicably been won and lost by the stupid tradition of out-patrioting each other. Let's face it, there hasn't been a presidential candidate in history who lacked for patriotism. And yet it's still made into an issue. Of course, now that I've said "never in history", ari1013 will come up with an example from the early 1900's.
    Sorry you got me on that one
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