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View Poll Results: Is Global Warming Real?

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  • Yes, and we can do something about it

    25 54.35%
  • Yes, but there is nothing we can do about it.

    8 17.39%
  • No, it's not real.

    13 28.26%
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  1. #46
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    It's a natural and manmade thing too. We had a pretty much perfect balance. But the pollution since the Industrial revolution tipped us over. So we should be able to do something about it if we tipped it over.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Here are two links on the subject that are timely, fwiw.


    http://www.dailytech.com/Myth+of+Con...ticle12403.htm

    I guess Exxon Mobil paid off those scientists too?

    It is good to see global warming people actually sponsoring debate instead of saying "I'm right you're wrong don't you have a brian[sic]."





    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...6-7583,00.html

    That second one is a fascinating read.
    BB you're proving my point. Nobody's disputing that we're going through a climatic change, the question is whether or not humans have anything to do with it.

    People that are completely denying that it's happening are the ones that "don't have a brain."
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabernetluver View Post
    Your point is a tautology. You have said it is only one degree, therfore, it is not important, therefore it is not important.

    Well, first every one degree adds 10% to lightning strikes. That is important. Secondly, as you shrink glaciers, the effect grows. You see the glaciers are the air conditioner for the area below them, thereby changing the climate way more than the one degree that you are minimizing.

    The problem is not just the one degree today, it is what is going to happen, and if you are wrong, there are some dire results

    If you are right, and we change from carbon based energy to renewables, no harm done. In fact, here in the USA, our economy will be helped dramatically.

    So in short, my way, heads we win tales we win, we look at it your way, heads or tales, our economy suffers. If you are wrong, not only does our economy suffer, but all of humanity suffers.
    When did I ever say that 1 degree isn't important

    **** our economy, I think once the Earth's average temperature raises 7 more degrees from what it is now we lose over half our land mass on Earth to the oceans. Trust me I understand what effect it has on the Earth, but we shouldn't be focusing on global warming, but rather what causes that to happen and im not just talking about burning fossil fuels. Haloalkane's have been used very prominently over the last 100 years and those alone have caused a dramatic effect on the levels of methane and alkanes in our atmosphere. A decrease in O-Zone wouldn't just effect us directly but indirectly as well. There are many forms of plankton that have become extinct from the average rise in UV over the last few years, without plankton we would lose much needed oxygen. Not to mention the effects it has on crops by killing cyanobacteria which are a key part to nitrogen fixation.

    Again, why sink billions of dollars into a cause when we aren't even attacking the root of the problem?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by quiksilver2491 View Post
    Again, why sink billions of dollars into a cause when we aren't even attacking the root of the problem?
    The reason to sink billions of dollars is quite simply, we have no choice. From a purely economic perspective, we have reached the tipping point of cheap oil. Using the most optomistic perspective on future oil finds, we get into worse and worse trouble. Using the the opposite view, we are already there. Our economic future depends on us changing to wind, solar, and tidal energy as our primary energy sources.

    From an environmental perspective, well before the floods and decreased land mass, we are in trouble. It is not about a hot day in December nor is it about the earth. It is about the consequences to our food chain, water sources, the consequential political upheaval that comes from these things.

    I don't really care what someones motivation is in making these changes, be it the environmentalists veiws, or the economic patriots views, or the views of the purely self centered, we have no choice.

  5. #50
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    I believe its real but not serious... I mean I am pretty sure the earth gets closer to the sun every year and we supposedly had weather change back during the dinosaurs.... therefore it will never be a priority to me.

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  6. #51
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    haha how is it not really, it cant be disputed rationally at all. Its real, its here and its a problem and our actions can change the outcome of our future.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mile High Champ View Post
    haha how is it not really, it cant be disputed rationally at all. Its real, its here and its a problem and our actions can change the outcome of our future.
    how do we have anything to do with it is my question. I honestly don't believe we can stop it

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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidaz4Life View Post
    how do we have anything to do with it is my question. I honestly don't believe we can stop it
    Best question I have read

    We cannot stop it on a dime. We will have to do things that will take time, but, there are real things we can and should do.

    Strangely enough, many of them are in our own selfish intererst to do.

    First, on a small level, change lightbulbs to the new style. They have come a long way from what they used be like. They have some that work with dimmers, different shades of light etc. Why does that help. Well simply it uses less energy, and, they save us money in the long run with smaller light bills. I use LED lights for my holliday displays. It turns out they saved me a ton of money in electricity. I will be ahead the second year I use them.

    On a larger level, as a homeowner I have been watching the value of solar power get to the point where I am thinking about putting a system on my roof. I have a large sothern exposure and it would save me about $250 a month at current rates on my electricty. My payback time keeps getting shorter and shorter. Oh and in my area, the electric company has to buy my excess generation at retail rates.

    At a really large level, got to http://www.pickensplan.com/ for an example of what we can do that will save us tons of $.

    In the end the financial and environmental causes are linked, for the first time.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino17 View Post
    how is that ignorant?

    there is plenty of scientific evidence that says the earth goes through cycles of this, you are the one being ignorant not even considering anyone elses opinion.
    I respect evenryones opinions but I find It ridiuclous to believe humans have had no influence on global warming. People like me who live in northern climates feel it much more then those who live in warmer climates. I can see it with my own eyes, there's signs of it everywhere and people who live in the extreme northern climates feel it more then anyone. I think one of the problems is just that, most of the earths population is relatively close to the equator and of course, not even 1% of people live near the poles. Yes, there is evidence that the earth goes in cycles but not like this, this is happening at an extreme rate so although science says: the earth goes through cycles, it's more complicated then that. This is happening at a much faster rate then usual.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidaz4Life View Post
    how do we have anything to do with it is my question. I honestly don't believe we can stop it
    I understand what you're saying but if you look over human history, humans have used their brains time and time again to avoid catastrophe. It's like the O-zone layer, you don't hear too many people talk about that anymore right? That's because humans stopped using CFC chemicals and eventually, the Ozone will be back to normal...eventually.Solving global warming isn't complicated, stop using fossil fuels and things certainly couldn't get much worse. Nip it in the but. Of course, I'm one of the people who believes the conspiracy that governments want us to rely on fossil fuels for their benefit. It's just like the suggestion by the Bush administration to use hydrogen in the future which will never happen. Hydrogen is just one of those alternative fuels put out there by the media to make it seem like we're doing something but we aren't, hydrogen fuel cells will never work like alot of other suggested fuels by governments.

  11. #56
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    yeah ari I never said i disagreed with your statement of most people believing climate change was happening.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by halladaymvp View Post
    I'm sorry but thats completely ignorant. That's like believing that certain species that have gone extinct has nothing to do with humans either.
    hell yes! damn those cavemen for taking out the dinosaurs to develop their fancy Walmarts and McDonalds!!!

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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by halladaymvp View Post
    I understand what you're saying but if you look over human history, humans have used their brains time and time again to avoid catastrophe. It's like the O-zone layer, you don't hear too many people talk about that anymore right? That's because humans stopped using CFC chemicals and eventually, the Ozone will be back to normal...eventually.Solving global warming isn't complicated, stop using fossil fuels and things certainly couldn't get much worse. Nip it in the but. Of course, I'm one of the people who believes the conspiracy that governments want us to rely on fossil fuels for their benefit. It's just like the suggestion by the Bush administration to use hydrogen in the future which will never happen. Hydrogen is just one of those alternative fuels put out there by the media to make it seem like we're doing something but we aren't, hydrogen fuel cells will never work like alot of other suggested fuels by governments.
    See thats where i disagree. I will concede it is very probable we can slow the effects of global warming but in no way do I believe we can eliminate it all together and develop a permanently consistent climate. I am all for being more energy and fuel efficient (I hate paying high gas prices) but at the same time I would not consider it a "The day after tomorrow" crisis that immediately needs to be addressed or prioritized.

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  14. #59
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    (I deleted in the other thread and moved my response to moonman to this one ... I forgot about this thread)

    Quote Originally Posted by moonman View Post
    So you're biased, what else is new. Maybe you don't trust Al Gore. You might trust T. Boone Pickens, no? He's only got 60 years or so background in the energy biz. He's made a few billion along the way. You might consider him credible?

    BTW, he disagrees with you & Bush/Cheney, drilling is not the answer.

    http://www.pickensplan.com/
    Aww ... beat me to it moonie. There was a really great article about Pickens in the NY Times yesterday by Thomas Friedman (my literary hero).

    Texas to Tel Aviv
    by Thomas L. Friedman

    What would happen if you cross-bred J. R. Ewing of “Dallas” and Carl Pope, the head of the Sierra Club? You’d get T. Boone Pickens. What would happen if you cross-bred Henry Ford and Yitzhak Rabin? You’d get Shai Agassi. And what would happen if you put together T. Boone Pickens, the green billionaire Texas oilman now obsessed with wind power, and Shai Agassi, the Jewish Henry Ford now obsessed with making Israel the world’s leader in electric cars?

    You’d have the start of an energy revolution. (...)

    T. Boone Pickens is 80. He’s already made billions in oil. He was involved in some ugly mischief in funding the “Swift-boating” of John Kerry. But now he’s opting for a different legacy: breaking America’s oil habit by pushing for a massive buildup of wind power in the U.S. and converting our abundant natural gas supplies — now being used to make electricity — into transportation fuel to replace foreign oil in our cars, buses and trucks.

    Pickens is motivated by American nationalism. Because of all the money we are shipping abroad to pay for our oil addiction, he says, “we are on the verge of losing our superpower status.” His vision is summed up on his Web site: “We import 70 percent of our oil at a cost of $700 billion a year ... I have been an oil man all my life, but this is one emergency we can’t drill our way out of. If we create a renewable energy network, we can break our addiction to foreign oil.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/op...7friedman.html
    I want to emphasize one part in particular. Pickens is generally considered a conservative. He's an Okie-Texas oil man, and if there's one thing we know about oil men, it's that they're conservative. I also believe he was the largest donor to the Swift Boat 527 and that he also had donated heavily to Progress for America (another conservative 527).

    However, this conservative oil man acknowledges our need to move away from foreign oil *AND* also understands that all of this offshore drilling and ANWR talk won't amount to a **** thing.

    I generally refer people to the USGS survey of ANWR generally on this subject -- and the fact that they've concluded that much of the oil there is going to be very difficult to obtain, and that there isn't the overwhelming amount that [ahem] others claim there is -- a mean estimate of 10.2 billion barrels with recoverable estimates between 5.9 and 13.2 billion barrels (mean 9.3).

    But, the length of time it's going to take to even begin drilling, and the marginal effect it will ultimately have on oil prices (and the lasting damage it will have on the north slope of Alaska and it's inhabitants) make the venture not worthwhile (in my opinion).

    http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=380
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUGS1688 View Post
    I was listening to Al Gore speak on 'Meet the Press' on sunday morning. Some of the things he was saying was pretty scary. If it is real, we could be very very ****ed...what's your take on this?
    i remember fox news trying to pass global warming (or at least the version the gore presents to the public) as a statistical anomaly.
    to some extent global warming is very natural. however, i think the climate can be influenced by billions of people. sadly it's only a minority of the population that is influencing it.

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