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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    Better to be ignorant then?
    Sorry I don't get it

    I am ignorant if I don't vote or???

    I am informed about the candidates and choosing to vote for neither

    Do you know the definition of the word or are you confusing it with something else??
    Last edited by Randy West; 07-18-2008 at 11:39 AM.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    I really don't see how this could be construed as baiting. It's basically a factual presentation of both candidates' statements on their positions regarding Afghanistan, and then the assertion based on those positions that McCain has copied Obama's policy. I'm not saying "McCain is a liar" or "McCain is a douchebag" or anything like that. In fact, what I quoted mostly lets the candidates speak for themselves.

    Now, if you think those McCain quotes above are "misspeaks" that don't indicate what his true position was - if you think he actually was previously in favor of pulling troops from Iraq so they could be relocated to Afghanistan (as Obama has been calling for for a long time and McCain just said he wants to do), then fine, make your case and back it up.


    FWIW, there were 2 threads I deleted recently, both were started by the same person, and that person posted only in this forum, and apparently created an account for the sole purpose of coming in here to make Obama-bashing threads. McCain-bashing threads and posts have also been deleted and closed in here before, including by yours truly.

    But if you can't see the difference between what that guy was doing and what I'm doing in this thread, I guess we just have to acknowledge that you and I are seeing things very, very differently.
    Does not really matter you will just say it is not the same thing regardless of what I say. I guess you consider them bashing.........some info in between the bashes though.

    Those posts contained a ton of Obama misspeaks.......over and over again

    I guess if he would have formatted it a bit differently maybe???

    Just read new rules so nvm
    Last edited by Randy West; 07-18-2008 at 12:30 PM.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Does not really matter you will just say it is not the same thing regardless of what I say. I guess you consider them bashing.........some info in between the bashes though.

    Those posts contained a ton of Obama misspeaks.......over and over again

    I guess if he would have formatted it a bit differently maybe???
    If you think I'm not taking your criticism seriously, you're mistaken. That's why I took the time to reply to you in detail, because I do think it's different and I wanted to explain why. I'm not ridiculing McCain on a personal level (although I am pointing to a hypocrisy in his foreign policy posturing), and I'm not twisting the meaning of what he's saying, or just bashing him. I'm presenting his policies, as well as Obama's.

    And you haven't answered my question: Do you disagree with the assertion that is made in my top post, that Obama has maintained this position on Afghanistan for a long time now and McCain has differed greatly on it until just this month? Or do you think there is truth to that assertion?

    I (obviously) believe it's true, and my reason for posting about it is that I think it's important to point out that the candidate who's proclaiming himself to have more expertise in the area of foreign policy is directly lifting one of his most important positions from his opponent, who he has repeatedly accused of lacking expertise, knowledge and judgment. To me, it's a very legitimate issue that merits scrutiny.


    If you disagree with that, or disagree with the point made here, I'd love to hear why.

    And if you honestly think this is a baiting thread, I'd equally love for you to point to an example from that top post that you consider baiting.

    What I don't want to hear any more of is you accusing me of stuff without really backing it up.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    If you think I'm not taking your criticism seriously, you're mistaken. That's why I took the time to reply to you in detail, because I do think it's different and I wanted to explain why. I'm not ridiculing McCain on a personal level (although I am pointing to a hypocrisy in his foreign policy posturing), and I'm not twisting the meaning of what he's saying, or just bashing him. I'm presenting his policies, as well as Obama's.

    And you haven't answered my question: Do you disagree with the assertion that is made in my top post, that Obama has maintained this position on Afghanistan for a long time now and McCain has differed greatly on it until just this month? Or do you think there is truth to that assertion?

    I (obviously) believe it's true, and my reason for posting about it is that I think it's important to point out that the candidate who's proclaiming himself to have more expertise in the area of foreign policy is directly lifting one of his most important positions from his opponent, who he has repeatedly accused of lacking expertise, knowledge and judgment. To me, it's a very legitimate issue that merits scrutiny.


    If you disagree with that, or disagree with the point made here, I'd love to hear why.

    And if you honestly think this is a baiting thread, I'd equally love for you to point to an example from that top post that you consider baiting.

    What I don't want to hear any more of is you accusing me of stuff without really backing it up.
    How can I back something up when the post is now gone and it is basically your word against mine?? The fact remains that the post had information in it that was true regardless of you liking it or not or the format of the post

    I never said you were baiting, I simply said the other post contained a lot of Obama misspeaks is all........you took it as a personal thing I guess.

    Why do you feel like I was accusing you........oh wait because you removed a post with Obama misspeak and then make a big deal about McCain misspeaking in another post.........I know I know it is different though it is all different

    I mean when it really boils right down to it is you are as biased as can be for Obama........thats cool and your choice. It just stinks that you get to squelch at your own discretion other peoples voices who are not on board with the guy. I don't really care I find it comical and entertaining..........all this well he said this then and is saying this now........they both do it

    I don't really need to answer your question do I?? I mean they have both said one thing and then said another on numerous occasions........that makes them both liars as far as I am concerned..........oh wait those are not lies just misspeak.......as far as Afghanistan is concerned Obama has maintained his position............the other post just pointed out how many times he actually has not maintained a position

    I mean it isn't like you rewrote the rules in the election forum and then deleted a bunch of posts that didn't suit your new rules............did you??? Oh wait that might be construed as me accusing you of stuff and not backing it up.

    This is after the fact of rereading my post........I am going to apologize for sounding so abrasive on any of it. You are the mod and like you have told me before in private, modding this is not the easiest thing to do at this point in time. To be fair you have deleted stuff on both sides of the aisle and are doing the best you can do given the circumstances I am sure
    Last edited by Randy West; 07-18-2008 at 06:26 PM.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Sorry I don't get it

    I am ignorant if I don't vote or???

    I am informed about the candidates and choosing to vote for neither

    Do you know the definition of the word or are you confusing it with something else??
    No you missed my point.

    I'm asking you if it's better to be ignorant about the issues and candidates so that you can go on living a life where you don't realize that they're all flawed. Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

    My point is that of course they're flawed. Nobody's perfect. But they're what we've got right now. And there's definitely a clear difference between the two in terms of the domestic and foreign policy strategies they would follow. Neither one might be ideal to you, me, or any other American voter this fall, but you have to admit that one of them is a little closer to your own personal ideology than the other.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    No you missed my point.

    I'm asking you if it's better to be ignorant about the issues and candidates so that you can go on living a life where you don't realize that they're all flawed. Because that's what it seems like you're saying.

    My point is that of course they're flawed. Nobody's perfect. But they're what we've got right now. And there's definitely a clear difference between the two in terms of the domestic and foreign policy strategies they would follow. Neither one might be ideal to you, me, or any other American voter this fall, but you have to admit that one of them is a little closer to your own personal ideology than the other.
    Ah I got it now

    I have been trying to identify with one guy or the other guy but I am having a tough go at it. I don't really dig any of what McCain is saying to tell the truth........he has been around politics so long I have a problem trusting him in the first place........without trust you kind of have to not even look at the guy if you can't trust him.

    On the other hand I like what Obama has been saying on a couple issues. Problem there is how long he has been involved in politics........I think it is real easy to say we need to change things and a whole lot tougher to bring about an actual change.

    Then on top of that you have to worry about the fact the candidates will say one thing but could fall lock step in with party ideology once elected.

    confusion reigns for me at this point in the cycle I suppose. I do know I like reading what the posters put up and there feelings on issues and candidates........sometimes it helps you relate a bit I guess.........we are all people involved with the process to some extent.......so it is nice to know how others feel and the views on issues they have
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    I never said you were baiting, I simply said the other post contained a lot of Obama misspeaks is all........you took it as a personal thing I guess.

    Why do you feel like I was accusing you........oh wait because you removed a post with Obama misspeak and then make a big deal about McCain misspeaking in another post.........I know I know it is different though it is all different
    Look, man, it's real simple. The two threads you're referring two were baiting threads. Period. So the details of some of the content is irrelevant. They got deleted because they were baiting threads. So when you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    I am trying to figure out why this has not been deleted

    Real similar to the post that had all the misspeaks of Obama's and how his positions have changed with the times
    ...then yeah, it sounds to me like you're accusing me of creating a baiting post.

    See what I'm saying?
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    Look, man, it's real simple. The two threads you're referring two were baiting threads. Period. So the details of some of the content is irrelevant. They got deleted because they were baiting threads. So when you say:



    ...then yeah, it sounds to me like you're accusing me of creating a baiting post.

    See what I'm saying?
    Totally

    And after the fact I apologized for that misunderstanding on my part
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Totally

    And after the fact I apologized for that misunderstanding on my part
    Cool, no problem, I just wasn't sure from your previous post that it was clear to you why it looked to me that way.


    For the record, and this is to everybody:

    I do try to mod this forum as objectively as I can, and post on the level like we ask everybody else to as well. But I'm not perfect, so I probably won't be able to do this perfectly all the time. (After all, I really am NOT objective, obviously - I'm only trying to act objectively in my role as a mod). So if people think things aren't being modded fairly I don't have a problem with hearing you out and discussing it. But that said, I do also reserve the right to stick up for myself if I disagree with what I'm being called out about.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

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