Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Shakedown Street, Japan
    Posts
    30,280
    vCash
    1500

    McCain has decided to copy Obama's Afghanistan position

    John McCain said in May that Barack Obama "really has no experience or knowledge or judgment about the issue of Iraq".

    I guess he must feel quite differently about Obama's experience, knowledge and judgment about the issue of Afghanistan, though, since less than two months after making that claim he has decided to copy and adopt Obama's Afghanistan policy position.

    I guess the question would be why someone so experienced and knowledgeable about foreign policy would have to steal his ideas from someone who has no experience or knowledge in that are... ???

    McCain On Afghanistan

    by hilzoy

    Yesterday, Josh Marshall wrote:

    "Obama has been saying for almost a year that more troops are needed in Afghanistan. McCain has said that wasn't the case, that Iraq was the central battleground in the war on terror. Moreover, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs says that we need more troops in Afghanistan but we none are available unless we pull substantial numbers out of Iraq -- which McCain is ruling out.

    So let's all say it out loud: McCain is now copying Obama's position on Afghanistan.

    And with troops that he doesn't have since he's against pulling any out of Iraq."
    He's right. A bit of documentation:

    December 2006:

    "Asked if the U.S. would send more troops to Afghanistan, McCain responded, "The British have said that they will be sending additional troops, taking troops out of Iraq and into Afghanistan.

    "If it's necessary, we will, and I'm sure we would be agreeable, but the focus here is more on training the Afghan National Army and the police, as opposed to the increased U.S. troop presence.""
    July 6, 2008:

    "Barack Obama and John McCain are proposing sharply different strategies to seize the initiative from a resurgent Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, positions that underscore the two leading presidential candidates' competing visions of how to wage the war on terrorism. (...)

    If elected, Obama says, he would immediately withdraw thousands of ground troops from Iraq and send them to Afghanistan to help undermanned US forces defeat the Taliban and Al Qaeda. (...)

    However, McCain, a former fighter pilot and Vietnam prisoner of war, says Iraq, not Afghanistan, is the "central front" in the war on terrorism. He believes that NATO and Pakistan must do more in Afghanistan until the United States can draw down its commitment in Iraq - a position which tracks Bush administration strategy.

    McCain's advisers say that if he becomes president he would build on President Bush's decision to rely on NATO forces - which now have about 20,000 troops in Afghanistan - and would prod Pakistan to take on Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters camped inside its borders."
    December 2007 (in Foreign Affairs):

    "Our recommitment to Afghanistan must include increasing NATO forces, suspending the debilitating restrictions on when and how those forces can fight, expanding the training and equipping of the Afghan National Army through a long-term partnership with NATO to make it more professional and multiethnic, and deploying significantly more foreign police trainers. It must also address the current political deficiencies in judicial reform, reconstruction, governance, and anticorruption efforts."
    February 2008:

    "John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee for November's US presidential race, is to launch a diplomatic offensive to push France and Germany to do more to help British forces in Afghanistan.

    Mr McCain has told The Sunday Telegraph that he plans to bang European heads together. "I'll go over there and sit down with them," he said, to discuss what he sees as "Nato's failure to do the heavy lifting in Afghanistan"."
    July 9, 2008:

    "While John McCain has vociferously supported the surge strategy in Iraq, he has been less vocal about the ongoing war in Afghanistan. He called on NATO and other allies of the U.S. to send more troops today, but stopped short of advocating additional American soldiers be deployed to the region until he spoke with commanders on the ground.

    “I would like to have our allies make a bigger commitment, both in personnel and other ways,” he said. “I’d like to hear from our military leaders, our chairman of the joint chiefs, as well as the military commanders there.” (...)

    McCain’s rival, Barack Obama, has made sending additional troops to Afghanistan one of the cornerstones of his foreign policy."
    "Just one week ago":

    "McCain said just one week ago that the way to solve the situation in Afghanistan was to look at "a broad variety of areas" -- none of which were an increased troop presence, but instead included some things that were absent from his speech today, including "the effectiveness of the Karzai government, ungovernable areas, ungoverned, uncontrolled areas of the Afghan-Pakistan border.""
    Until yesterday, McCain has only advocated sending NATO troops. This may be because as long as we stay in Iraq, we have no additional troops to send. (Though McCain also thinks that "Afghanistan is not in trouble because of our diversion to Iraq." Oddly enough, there's also this: "The most "critical" difference between the two candidates, McCain said, is Obama's belief that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are disconnected." All very confusing.)

    Democrats have been saying for years that we need more troops in Afghanistan, and that one of the huge costs of invading Iraq was that it diverted attention and resources from Afghanistan. Offhand, the first time I can think of that Obama said this was in his speech opposing the invasion:

    "You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings."
    Or this, from 2007:
    "Moreover, until we change our approach in Iraq, it will be increasingly difficult to refocus our efforts on the challenges in the wider region - on the conflict in the Middle East, where Hamas and Hezbollah feel emboldened and Israel's prospects for a secure peace seem uncertain; on Iran, which has been strengthened by the war in Iraq; and on Afghanistan, where more American forces are needed to battle al Qaeda, track down Osama bin Laden, and stop that country from backsliding toward instability."
    Or this, from 2006:

    "Drawing down our troops in Iraq will allow us to redeploy additional troops to Northern Iraq and elsewhere in the region as an over-the-horizon force. This force could help prevent the conflict in Iraq from becoming a wider war, consolidate gains in Northern Iraq, reassure allies in the Gulf, allow our troops to strike directly at al Qaeda wherever it may exist, and demonstrate to international terrorist organizations that they have not driven us from the region.

    Perhaps most importantly, some of these troops could be redeployed to Afghanistan, where our lack of focus and commitment of resources has led to an increasing deterioration of the security situation there. The President's decision to go to war in Iraq has had disastrous consequences for Afghanistan -- we have seen a fierce Taliban offensive, a spike in terrorist attacks, and a narcotrafficking problem spiral out of control. Instead of consolidating the gains made by the Karzai government, we are backsliding towards chaos. By redeploying from Iraq to Afghanistan, we will answer NATO's call for more troops and provide a much-needed boost to this critical fight against terrorism."
    Just so it's clear who took what position before yesterday.
    obsidianwings
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

    Atheists Of PSD

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    St. Louis, MO / SIUe
    Posts
    35,041
    vCash
    1500
    yeah I mentioned this in another thread.

    it's kind of silly because he also said that Obama and Bush have the same policies over there -- and that he's the one with the real answers.
    Member of the Owlluminati

    Quote Originally Posted by James Madison
    "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."
    2011 Knicks Salary Cap Information

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    930
    vCash
    1500
    Gee, after what McCain said about Obama to the NAACP and now McCain is even adopting Obama's policies I'm just guessin' here but maybe McCain is looking for a spot on the ticket, as Obama's VP.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NOR CAL
    Posts
    8,834
    vCash
    1500
    I am trying to figure out why this has not been deleted

    Real similar to the post that had all the misspeaks of Obama's and how his positions have changed with the times
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Rockland, ME
    Posts
    330
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    I am trying to figure out why this has not been deleted

    Real similar to the post that had all the misspeaks of Obama's and how his positions have changed with the times
    I can't speak to the "similarity" to another thread that was deleted, but I found this informative and telling... No?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NOR CAL
    Posts
    8,834
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Bosox Believer View Post
    I can't speak to the "similarity" to another thread that was deleted, but I found this informative and telling... No?
    Oh yeah for sure

    The other one was telling as well

    Neither candidate at this point has my vote .........the more of these threads I read the more I think about abstaining from the process this year
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    North Oakland, California
    Posts
    25,815
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Oh yeah for sure

    The other one was telling as well

    Neither candidate at this point has my vote .........the more of these threads I read the more I think about abstaining from the process this year
    Yeah, but abstain from voting and you lose your right to complain.

    At least vote for an independant candidate. Dont just not vote.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    21,592
    vCash
    1500
    Yeah, but abstain from voting and you lose your right to complain.
    Why?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    930
    vCash
    1500
    ^^^^Did I miss something? Was the 1st Amendment repealed?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NOR CAL
    Posts
    8,834
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by CubsGirl View Post
    Yeah, but abstain from voting and you lose your right to complain.

    At least vote for an independant candidate. Dont just not vote.
    Oh I am sure I will find my way to the polls

    I am writing in gcoll at the very least

    Not a personal attack on gcoll so please don't take it as such
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    St. Louis, MO / SIUe
    Posts
    35,041
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Oh yeah for sure

    The other one was telling as well

    Neither candidate at this point has my vote .........the more of these threads I read the more I think about abstaining from the process this year
    Better to be ignorant then?
    Member of the Owlluminati

    Quote Originally Posted by James Madison
    "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."
    2011 Knicks Salary Cap Information

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    21,592
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Oh I am sure I will find my way to the polls

    I am writing in gcoll at the very least

    Not a personal attack on gcoll so please don't take it as such
    I wouldn't have taken that as a personal attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013
    Better to be ignorant then?
    Everyone is ignorant.

    It's why I'm not voting. I have no idea what I'm talking about.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Shakedown Street, Japan
    Posts
    30,280
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    I am trying to figure out why this has not been deleted

    Real similar to the post that had all the misspeaks of Obama's and how his positions have changed with the times
    I really don't see how this could be construed as baiting. It's basically a factual presentation of both candidates' statements on their positions regarding Afghanistan, and then the assertion based on those positions that McCain has copied Obama's policy. I'm not saying "McCain is a liar" or "McCain is a douchebag" or anything like that. In fact, what I quoted mostly lets the candidates speak for themselves.

    Now, if you think those McCain quotes above are "misspeaks" that don't indicate what his true position was - if you think he actually was previously in favor of pulling troops from Iraq so they could be relocated to Afghanistan (as Obama has been calling for for a long time and McCain just said he wants to do), then fine, make your case and back it up.


    FWIW, there were 2 threads I deleted recently, both were started by the same person, and that person posted only in this forum, and apparently created an account for the sole purpose of coming in here to make Obama-bashing threads. McCain-bashing threads and posts have also been deleted and closed in here before, including by yours truly.

    But if you can't see the difference between what that guy was doing and what I'm doing in this thread, I guess we just have to acknowledge that you and I are seeing things very, very differently.
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

    Atheists Of PSD

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    a cardbroad box under the overpass
    Posts
    3,413
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by CubsGirl View Post
    Yeah, but abstain from voting and you lose your right to complain.

    At least vote for an independant candidate. Dont just not vote.
    If you paid taxes, you have the right to complain. This whole voting thing is a joke considering how many promises were broken and where we are now as a nation. How many people believe they can acheive the america dream by hard work? Or acheive the success their parent had? Or believe the Consitution is nothing but a piece of paper to be used like T.P. by the powerful. Our political leaders are driving the country into the abyss while having the nerve to tell us to quit whinning.
    I can see why people quit voting because they don't believe in the system and for good reasons. Maybe one day we will wake up, come together and take back the steering wheel. I doubt it because our focus is all over the place and on each other. The political parties has divided us against each other for their gains.
    Who ever wins, I hope they make Gcoll head of the dept. of Justice, so he can crack heads and take names! Just don't wire-tapped my phone, bro. peace and good will.
    Last edited by WES445; 07-18-2008 at 06:24 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Shakedown Street, Japan
    Posts
    30,280
    vCash
    1500
    On the whole "right to complain" thing:

    OF COURSE we have the 1st Amendment, the right to free speech, and everybody has the right, guaranteed to them under the Constitution, to express whatever political opinions they wish to.

    So, "you lose your right to complain" is poorly phrased, maybe. But that doesn't mean there's not a legitimate point there.

    I would say, rather, "If all you're gonna do is whine about things but you refuse to participate in the process or try to do anything to change things in any way, then you lose your right to have me take your opinion seriously."
    I blog basketball at Roundball Mining Company///Twitter: @denbutsu

    Atheists Of PSD

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •