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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Well to be fair about it he did say some pretty terrible things about what was going on and who was doing what and to whom.

    So I can understand why people were mad at the time. It is kind of like hey I was over there doing such and such, now I am back and don't think we should do those types of things.

    I get both sides of it

    I have read some of his testimony before congress and understand what he was trying to do though. But really he served and didn't agree with what was happening and took a stand for what he believed in.

    something has to be said just for that alone
    Kerry was only talking common sense when he was part of the anti-war movement. There is such convolution and revisionist thinking about the Vietnam War. No disrespect intended to those that gave their lives in the conflicts, but wars like Vietnam and Iraq are nothing at all to be proud of. I think Kerry deserves credit for his anti-war stance, not ridicule.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Kerry was only talking common sense when he was part of the anti-war movement. There is such convolution and revisionist thinking about the Vietnam War. No disrespect intended to those that gave their lives in the conflicts, but wars like Vietnam and Iraq are nothing at all to be proud of. I think Kerry deserves credit for his anti-war stance, not ridicule.
    5 clap salute to you my friend. Again I would like to stress Vietnam was a police action and not a war. And kudos to Kerry for telling his version of what the truth about Vietnam was. I can never understand why people are so scared of anothers words if there are no merit to them.....oh wait perhaps there were?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Kerry was only talking common sense when he was part of the anti-war movement. There is such convolution and revisionist thinking about the Vietnam War. No disrespect intended to those that gave their lives in the conflicts, but wars like Vietnam and Iraq are nothing at all to be proud of. I think Kerry deserves credit for his anti-war stance, not ridicule.
    I am not real sure who was ridiculing him here but I see what you are saying. He had every right to say what he wanted to say before congress, people in this country have just as much right to be upset about the comments he made if it actually upset them.

    I am very proud of the fact I helped drive Iraqi's out of Kuwait so I am not sure I get the whole should not be proud about Iraq part. I think you are referring to Iraq part II Electric Boogaloo.......bad joke I know
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    I am not real sure who was ridiculing him here but I see what you are saying. He had every right to say what he wanted to say before congress, people in this country have just as much right to be upset about the comments he made if it actually upset them.

    I am very proud of the fact I helped drive Iraqi's out of Kuwait so I am not sure I get the whole should not be proud about Iraq part. I think you are referring to Iraq part II Electric Boogaloo.......bad joke I know
    Yep. And not just for losing those conflicts. Because the reason for involvement in those wars was ridiculous.
    Last edited by ink; 07-16-2008 at 05:49 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Yep.

    What a waste

    we had half a million troops on the ground all the logistics handled

    People leading the conflict that we had faith and believed in, a coalition of the willing and what not. Most of the free world behind us or with us in some form or another

    Just to leave and have to come back ten years later

    I really look back and wonder why.......why couldn't we have just finished it then??? I think Iraq would have been the better for it as well. We could have stayed 18-24 months longer and cleaned up a bit.

    I have a sneaky feeling Iraq would be a little further along in it's development at this point if we would have followed through then
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Kerry was only talking common sense when he was part of the anti-war movement. There is such convolution and revisionist thinking about the Vietnam War. No disrespect intended to those that gave their lives in the conflicts, but wars like Vietnam and Iraq are nothing at all to be proud of. I think Kerry deserves credit for his anti-war stance, not ridicule.
    He deserves credit for throwing away his medals, and accusing his "brothers" of war crimes? Come on.

    About Mccain's "I know how to win wars" comment.....I doubt he really does. But, I would guess he knows more about that issue than Obama.
    Last edited by gcoll; 07-16-2008 at 06:30 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    He deserves credit for throwing away his medals, and accusing his "brothers" of war crimes? Come on.
    Since when is telling the truth and realizing you were wrongly rewarded bad?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    First off Vietnam was a police action and not a war.
    When Vietnamese people are shooting at you while you try to defend other Vietnam people and your friends are dying all around you, does it really matter what the technical name is?

    And how can you know how to win a war when you can't keep from being a long time P.O.W.? Also I have nothing against people who were in Viewtnam
    Apparently you do. You've belittled McCain's service by saying 1) It wasn't a real war and 2) he's stupid because he got tortured. How exactly would you, if you had been in McCain's place, avoided being a long term captor? Besides dying of course.

    Just because he was in the military and a P.O.W. does qualify him to be president or know how to run a war.
    That's true. But you guys tried it four years ago, we're apparently gonna try this year (sigh) with a genuine war hero and POW. And I bet McCain could deface his own medals.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    Since when is telling the truth and realizing you were wrongly rewarded bad?
    Fine. But then you can't run on being proud of your service, and serving honorably.

    There's a contradiction there.

  10. #25
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    ^^^ I guess I kinda see that, but at the same time you can run a campaign that says "I'm not against stopping an unpopular war because I know what it's like." And that's what he did.

    But for Kerry to say he was proud of his service is ridiculous. He did nothing but stab people in the back and use it to climb over other people to get to the top.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    When Vietnamese people are shooting at you while you try to defend other Vietnam people and your friends are dying all around you, does it really matter what the technical name is?



    Apparently you do. You've belittled McCain's service by saying 1) It wasn't a real war and 2) he's stupid because he got tortured. How exactly would you, if you had been in McCain's place, avoided being a long term captor? Besides dying of course.



    That's true. But you guys tried it four years ago, we're apparently gonna try this year (sigh) with a genuine war hero and POW. And I bet McCain could deface his own medals.
    1: No it does not realy matter but it was not a war.

    2: I did not belittle him because it was not real.

    3: His actions did NOTHING to serve our country! Vietnam was never a threat to the U.S.A. nor was communism spreading in SE Asia a threat to us either. It was just a byproduct for fear mongering by Mc Carthy and others like him that lead up to this conflict. Nobody that faught in Vietnam served this conuntry in any way shape or form.

    4: Nothing that he has done qualifies him to know how to win a war IMO.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    2: I did not belittle him because it was not real.
    You did. First, you say in number three he did nothing to serve our country. Then you make degrading comments about the whole having both his arms broken, almost drowning, etc.

    3: His actions did NOTHING to serve our country! Vietnam was never a threat to the U.S.A. nor was communism spreading in SE Asia a threat to us either. It was just a byproduct for fear mongering by Mc Carthy and others like him that lead up to this conflict. Nobody that faught in Vietnam served this conuntry in any way shape or form.
    But what he did for the country, putting his own life on the line, deserves some praise. Even if he wasn't a politician, his sacrifice is more noble. Hate the war, not those who were willing to die.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    What a waste

    we had half a million troops on the ground all the logistics handled

    People leading the conflict that we had faith and believed in, a coalition of the willing and what not. Most of the free world behind us or with us in some form or another

    Just to leave and have to come back ten years later

    I really look back and wonder why.......why couldn't we have just finished it then??? I think Iraq would have been the better for it as well. We could have stayed 18-24 months longer and cleaned up a bit.

    I have a sneaky feeling Iraq would be a little further along in it's development at this point if we would have followed through then
    Why couldn't we finish it then? Easy. The Arabs knew that a prolonged US presence in Iraq would lead to instability. The Saudis and Bush's father worked out an agreement to basically turn the Iraq problem over to the UN to handle and in return they'd help pressure the Palestinians to end the Intifada. Soon after, Israel and the Palestinians "magically" had a breakthrough in Madrid which then paved the way for Camp David and Oslo. Unfortunately, the Palestinians got tired of being used as pawns and they rebelled -- leading to a second Intifada and helping Bin Laden justify a second round of terror attacks to follow the 1998 bombings.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    You did. First, you say in number three he did nothing to serve our country. Then you make degrading comments about the whole having both his arms broken, almost drowning, etc.



    But what he did for the country, putting his own life on the line, deserves some praise. Even if he wasn't a politician, his sacrifice is more noble. Hate the war, not those who were willing to die.
    qft

    It doesn't qualify him in any way whatsoever to be President, but it's still very admirable what he did by making sure none of the soldiers he served with were left behind.
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    "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    Why couldn't we finish it then? Easy. The Arabs knew that a prolonged US presence in Iraq would lead to instability. The Saudis and Bush's father worked out an agreement to basically turn the Iraq problem over to the UN to handle and in return they'd help pressure the Palestinians to end the Intifada. Soon after, Israel and the Palestinians "magically" had a breakthrough in Madrid which then paved the way for Camp David and Oslo. Unfortunately, the Palestinians got tired of being used as pawns and they rebelled -- leading to a second Intifada and helping Bin Laden justify a second round of terror attacks to follow the 1998 bombings.

    Yeah I was not talking prolonged, another 18-24 months. I think another two years added to the first go around and Iraq is further along in there own development. But really they could have just ended up in civil war anyway so you never really know if it would have been worth it.

    You don't really think we were less welcome then we are now do you??
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

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