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  1. #1
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    "I know how to win wars" - John McCain

    "I know how to win wars," the Vietnam War veteran asserted.
    Source: Sydney Morning Herald

    I'm not trying to start anything, because I realize that most threads in here seem to explode instead of turning into reasonable discussions ... but I cannot see how a Vietnam War vet knows how to win wars.

    No disrespect to his service record at all, but his re-known as a war vet is as a POW. He served in a war that no one claims America won. There are some that claim the USA didn't lose the war, but that's another subject. No one claims they won the war. It's a bit of make-believe for McCain to claim that he knows how to win a war. Unless he is quoting his father and grandfather who were admirals in the navy before him, and likely would have served in WWII.

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    I was thinking the same thing. Other than a WWII vet, Colin Powell, or Schwarzkopf, I don't see anyone qualifed today to make this statement.

    Talk about a stretch for McCain.

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    Both Sen. Hagel (R) and Kerry (D) who each served honorably in Vietnam have said they think McCain's comments about Vietnam are largely influenced by the fact that he was out of action for five years and had no knowledge of what was really going on.

    McCain says he knows how to win a war? Compared to who and what? George Bush, Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon? If by that standard, I would hope so.

    McCain's claim though strikes me as the kind of American hubris that makes us hated rather than feared or respected. It's the kind of thing said by schoolyard bullies. We don't need another bully in the WH.

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    Kerry didn't serve honorably. The only politician who exploited his vietnam record more than McCain is Kerry. The only difference is, other than moonman, you don't get a lot of people saying McCain faked his.

    Anyway, McCain said that probably based on his family. He's been around war his whole life, and probably knows a ton about strategy in ww2, ww1, vietnam, etc. But he doesn't have the General (as in the position) experience so he doens't know how to win wars. He knows how others have won wars, if that makes sense.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Kerry didn't serve honorably. The only politician who exploited his vietnam record more than McCain is Kerry. The only difference is, other than moonman, you don't get a lot of people saying McCain faked his.

    Anyway, McCain said that probably based on his family. He's been around war his whole life, and probably knows a ton about strategy in ww2, ww1, vietnam, etc. But he doesn't have the General (as in the position) experience so he doens't know how to win wars. He knows how others have won wars, if that makes sense.
    he absolutely did serve honorably, received medals, and commendations. He served on swiftboats and actually showed up in vietnam, unlike our current pres. It's getting pretty old belittling this man's service when he did so much for our country.

    http://www.factcheck.org/republican-...ar_record.html
    Last edited by PHX-SOXFAN; 07-16-2008 at 12:52 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Kerry didn't serve honorably. The only politician who exploited his vietnam record more than McCain is Kerry. The only difference is, other than moonman, you don't get a lot of people saying McCain faked his.

    Anyway, McCain said that probably based on his family. He's been around war his whole life, and probably knows a ton about strategy in ww2, ww1, vietnam, etc. But he doesn't have the General (as in the position) experience so he doens't know how to win wars. He knows how others have won wars, if that makes sense.
    No it doesn't make sense. First there is no evidence in McCain's resume that he has studied military strategy. So he had dinner with those who had. That is like the wife of a lawyer or doctor claiming expertise because she was married to a lawyer or a doctor.

    Recently, McCain and others have been touting that "The Surge" was his strategy and that we are winning because of it. This morning I caught a newsclip of McCain offering a weird convoluted theory that winning in Iraq will somehow bring about victory in Afghanistan. McCain said that's why we need to focus on Iraq.

    Second, in the opinion of at least one general who has actually studied strategy and won a war, McCain's military experience doesn't qualify him to be Commander in Chief.
    Last edited by moonman; 07-16-2008 at 01:01 PM.

  7. #7
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    McCain had 20 hours of active mission time.. not sure how he knows how to win battles.. but.. whatever..
    oh my god! did you hear? Alex Rodriguez left a floater and didn't do a double flush!!! someone alert the media this must be news!

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    1) Way to bring up Bush's record lol, when no one brought that up.

    2) You of all people can't get mad at the questioning of war heroes services
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonman View Post
    No it doesn't make sense. First there is no evidence in McCain's resume that he has studied military strategy. So he had dinner with those who had. That is like the wife of a lawyer or doctor claiming expertise because she was married to a lawyer or a doctor.
    His father and grandfather were navy admirals. He went to Annapolis. He served in Vietnam. He loves studying history. You're telling me he knows zero about war.

    Second, in the opinion of at least one general who has actually studied strategy and won a war, McCain's military experience doesn't qualify him to be Commander in Chief.
    And how many said Kerry was unqualified? I seem to remember some kind of a book or something. So if it's a populrty contest involving former military men...
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  10. #10
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    Kerry did fine while he served

    I think it is the way he acted afterward that got people riled up a bit

    Then again I don't know many veterans that have been involved in combat that think it is a good thing or want to go back and do it again.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

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    I agree with the second part. Not that testifying before congress about the people you called brothers isn't great and all.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

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    I bet he does, with the commander's in chief support, who doesn't

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Kerry did fine while he served

    I think it is the way he acted afterward that got people riled up a bit

    Then again I don't know many veterans that have been involved in combat that think it is a good thing or want to go back and do it again.
    absolutely. but we have hypocrites on here who blast democratic sentiment against the war as "anti-troop" while they directly belittle the service of men who served with no basis and despite disproved talking points. It's sad really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    absolutely. but we have hypocrites on here who blast democratic sentiment against the war as "anti-troop" while they directly belittle the service of men who served with no basis and despite disproved talking points. It's sad really.
    Well to be fair about it he did say some pretty terrible things about what was going on and who was doing what and to whom.

    So I can understand why people were mad at the time. It is kind of like hey I was over there doing such and such, now I am back and don't think we should do those types of things.

    I get both sides of it

    I have read some of his testimony before congress and understand what he was trying to do though. But really he served and didn't agree with what was happening and took a stand for what he believed in.

    something has to be said just for that alone
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Source: Sydney Morning Herald

    I'm not trying to start anything, because I realize that most threads in here seem to explode instead of turning into reasonable discussions ... but I cannot see how a Vietnam War vet knows how to win wars.

    No disrespect to his service record at all, but his re-known as a war vet is as a POW. He served in a war that no one claims America won. There are some that claim the USA didn't lose the war, but that's another subject. No one claims they won the war. It's a bit of make-believe for McCain to claim that he knows how to win a war. Unless he is quoting his father and grandfather who were admirals in the navy before him, and likely would have served in WWII.
    First off Vietnam was a police action and not a war. And how can you know how to win a war when you can't keep from being a long time P.O.W.? Also I have nothing against people who were in Vietnam but to say they "Served our country" while doing so is wrong!!!! By being in Vietnam it did nothing to serve our country! The only purpose it served was to have 50,000+ American lives lost, thousands with PSD and phyical wounds, and to not stop communism from spreading in S.E. Asia! Not to mention that last year Kissinger himself told a reporter that Nixion gave him the ok to tell the Chinese that they are free to move in to Vietnam during and after we left! Face it folks if G.W. Bush would of listen to his generals BEFORE we invaded Iraq (like Powell) we might of had more sucess there. This is what I worry about McCain...Him thinking since he has military experience that he knows what the hell he is doing and not heed the proper advise from generals like Bush did. Just because he was in the military and a P.O.W. does qualify him to be president or know how to run a war.
    Last edited by Raider_Vet; 07-17-2008 at 05:22 PM.

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