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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHG722 View Post
    Maybe foreclosures wouldn't happen if idiots bought houses they could afford?
    does the term predatory lending mean anything to you??
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


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  2. #32
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    I guess the issue is PHX, that you can't just run around screaming "SPIN!!!" "RUSH LOVER!!!" "HANNITY!"

    You have to prove it.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  3. #33
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    And who are the victims of predatory lending? Idiots who don't understand businesses are trying to make a profit. Idiots who can't sit down and say "well, I make this much and I spend this much on food and I need this much for gas and this much for utilities so I need this much for my house how much is my mortgage?"
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  4. #34
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    Yeah I guess the companies that have been shut down because of it were shut down for something else.

    I personally know of people who's income figures were doctored by lenders after the paperwork was signed.

    But I am sure you will try to blame that on borrowers as well
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    And who are the victims of predatory lending? Idiots who don't understand businesses are trying to make a profit. Idiots who can't sit down and say "well, I make this much and I spend this much on food and I need this much for gas and this much for utilities so I need this much for my house how much is my mortgage?"
    now add in the likely scenario that they were told that their 5/1 ARM would be great for now and they would be able to refi down the road, only to find out their home is worth much less than their mortgage balance and they can't refi. Then their rate resets to the loan their were sold as the best option and they can't afford it because they assumed they wouldn't be in that position, but they would be in a fixed rate by then. Well that's fair isn't it.

    It's also ridiculous that the banks won't alter the loan to a fixed rate in order to avoid the huge loss of the inevitable foreclosure, but instead go forward with the current loan, knowing full well the borrower can't afford the new rate, but would be able to afford a fixed rate to avoid a foreclosure. What a smart industry that is. Yep it's all the borrowers fault. Especially since this exact scenario is extremely more common than someone who just bought a house they could never afford.

    and this scenario happens over and over and over, driving home values down, eliminating the possibility of a refi for many as long as the lenders keep from changing their policies to allow it and defy the suggestions of Paulson, Bernanke, and nearly every knowledgeable senator and congressmen

    sorry, but it's not as simple as blame an idiot who didn't budget. It's a huge mess that just keeps being fed from lenders who won't stop predatory practices, take the advice of economists, or budge to make a smart business decision. It boggles my mind that they go foreward with a costly foreclosure instead of switching to a fixed 30 year.
    Last edited by PHX-SOXFAN; 07-11-2008 at 04:24 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN
    He was referring to ISSUES.
    Yes. I know.

    That is not an untrue or elitist statement at all
    Yes it is. It's putting down religious people, and people who care about gun rights....implying what they feel is important, isn't. That they are somehow misguided, and stupid, and they need Obama to come in and set them straight.

    It's a good thing people are getting this, well everyone that wants to know the truth and avoid lies and spin.
    Saying something is spin. Doesn't make it spin.

    You can't take every unpopular thing Obama says, and declare that it's Hannity's fault.

    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5
    He said people clung to their guns and religion with the conotation that sticking to your morals/constitutional rights is stupid.
    Right. He trivialized those issues, and implied that the people who care about them are misguided.

    Phx-Soxfan.....look at it this way. Who was he talking to? Where was he talking to them? What was he talking to them about? That puts it in context. And it really doesn't help your point at all.

  7. #37
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    Gcoll you don't understand.

    I'm actually Rush's secret lovechild who just spews everything I say. And every fault of Obama isn't a fault. Obama is Jesus ****ing Christ. Every percieved Obama fault is really the critics spinning.

    Does he believe in universal health care, or is that just spin too?
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  8. #38
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    how about we get back on topic?
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenButsu View Post
    And just when you thought it was all in your head, ...

    cnn
    Even with them down that much, I'd still sell those stocks short if I wasn't a risk averse economist.
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    "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    Yes. I know.


    Yes it is. It's putting down religious people, and people who care about gun rights....implying what they feel is important, isn't. That they are somehow misguided, and stupid, and they need Obama to come in and set them straight.


    Saying something is spin. Doesn't make it spin.

    You can't take every unpopular thing Obama says, and declare that it's Hannity's fault.


    Right. He trivialized those issues, and implied that the people who care about them are misguided.

    Phx-Soxfan.....look at it this way. Who was he talking to? Where was he talking to them? What was he talking to them about? That puts it in context. And it really doesn't help your point at all.
    you guys want to make it seem as though he was putting down those issues. Like I said, he was saying he wants people to evaluate all issues, not just two that won't be changed by his presidency anyways. he never said it wasn't important, and has said many times, especially recently, that it is very important to him.

    he has clarified this for so many audiences by now and stood in front of religious based audiences, for someone to still think that this was a put down you are still spinning that's the point. Go watch the Pennsylvania debate for one, what's that audience? It's people like you two, and yes Hannity, that beat this into the ground and misguide people on his message. get over it, that's not his view.

  11. #41
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    I'm still confused how it's spin, but I have a feeling it isn't.

    he did say those issues are unimportant compared to economic and domestic issues in politics. If Obama truly believed religion or the second amendment was more important, why would he ask people to ignore them for a moment and look at other issues?
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    I'm still confused how it's spin, but I have a feeling it isn't.

    he did say those issues are unimportant compared to economic and domestic issues in politics. If Obama truly believed religion or the second amendment was more important, why would he ask people to ignore them for a moment and look at other issues?
    the problem with your argument is that he didn't say any of that, you're implying and assuming. He said that people need to look at the whole spectrum of issues and did not dismiss a single one. He said all other issues should not be dismissed in lieu of only evaluating the two topics being discussed. he never ranked any, said to dismiss any, or said any of them were unimportant. to the contrary he said all should be evaluated and that he wants all of the issues to impact people for the better, instead of none of them ever helping like with administrations of the past. Get it yet?

    you guys continue to inject that he said to dismiss religion and guns, and that they were unimportant, yet he never said that and thus the "spin".

  13. #43
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    To get back on topic for this thread:

    this is a pretty widespread list of store closings.

    http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.js...81474977364401

    It's starting to trickle into where people spend money regularly. this is not a figment of Gramm's imagination. These numbers are going to be reported over coming months.

  14. #44
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    Wait til the list of bank bailouts.

  15. #45
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    That's not spin!

    He basically said voters need to focus less on guns and religion and focus more on health care and the economy. It's not that hard to get that from what Obama said. In fact, it was his point.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

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