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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    That's not spin!

    He basically said
    voters need to focus less on guns and religion and focus more on health care and the economy. It's not that hard to get that from what Obama said. In fact, it was his point.
    this is what spin comes down to! Interpretations, misrepresentations, and putting words into people's mouths that they didn't say. Most of these sentences begin with "he basically said", "what he means is", etc. Thank you for continuing to prove my point by not quoting him, paraphrasing, interpreting and spinning.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    this is what spin comes down to! Interpretations, misrepresentations, and putting words into people's mouths that they didn't say. Most of these sentences begin with "he basically said", "what he means is", etc. Thank you for continuing to prove my point by not quoting him, paraphrasing, interpreting and spinning.
    Please.

    Politics is all about hearing the spin that comes from politicians (even your precious Obama) and interpreting it. For instance, LA Governor Jindal said in a recent interview, when asked if he would accept a VP nomination, "McCain won't ask me, I'm happy with my job."

    He didn't say "I won't accept it," "I will accept it," or anything of the sort. He gave a non-answer answer. So that requires interpretation.

    Now when Obama says "It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." that does requier some interpretation. But other things are pretty clear. And it's pretty clear tat he views clinging to second amendment rights and religion as secondary to issues like NAFTA and amnesty.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  3. #48
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    A nation of whiners are we? It doesn't deserve a response. The noise Gramm hears is merely the opinion of the vast majority that the Reagan Revolution generally and George W. Bush specifically has failed.

    All it accomplished was that it socialized risk and loss while maintaining profit in private hands. Two recent examples are Bear/Stearns and Indymac. Washington puts together billion dollar deals on a weekend to save banks but after a year of record foreclosures Congress has done nothing to save one person in his or her home.

    As John Conyers once said, "If the people knew what was really going on there'd be a revolution."

    Gramm is no different than Marie Antoinette who was beheaded alongside Louis XIV in the French Revolution.
    Last edited by moonman; 07-14-2008 at 02:49 PM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN
    you guys want to make it seem as though he was putting down those issues.
    He was. And he was putting down those people.

    I don't think "Cling to their guns, and religion..." uses the word "bitter" and "anti immigrant sentiment" he's not talking positively about those issues.

    And again. Who was he talking to, what was he talking about?

    Like I said, he was saying he wants people to evaluate all issues
    Who was he talking to? What was he talking about?

    If you don't understand what Obama was talking about. You don't want to.

    he has clarified this for so many audiences by now and stood in front of religious based audiences, for someone to still think that this was a put down you are still spinning that's the point.
    It was a put down.

    Just because he tried to back away from the comments, doesn't change the meaning of the comments.

  5. #50
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    It's really not that hard to comprehend. Regardless of the half-hearted clarifications afterwards, Obama said:

    Voters need to worry more about things like Nafta and the economy. He said that voters who feel neglected by Washington vote based on the second amendment and religion. Then he said that shouldn't occur anymore, that they need to set aside their anti-amnesty views and their trade views.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    It's really not that hard to comprehend. Regardless of the half-hearted clarifications afterwards, Obama said:

    Voters need to worry more about things like Nafta and the economy. He said that voters who feel neglected by Washington vote based on the second amendment and religion. Then he said that shouldn't occur anymore, that they need to set aside their anti-amnesty views and their trade views.
    He wasn't saying that voters need to do anything. He was just describing certain demographics, and why he does poorly with them.

    http://thepage.time.com/transcript-o...raiser-sunday/

    When put in context, it's easy to see where PHX-SOXFAN's argument fails. He wasn't speaking TO these people. He was speaking ABOUT them to a San Francisco fundraiser audience. They were all campaign workers and Obama supporters. He was briefing them on the situation in Pennsylvania that had a primary coming up. He was talking about the different demographics they were courting, and why they don't poll so well with some.

    And what does "antipathy to people who aren’t like them" mean? Since when can a view being described as motivated by bitterness, be seen as anything else but a negative? Since when is "antipathy to people who aren't like them" even a political position?

    Come on. Stop spinning it PHX-Sox fan.
    Last edited by gcoll; 07-15-2008 at 01:33 AM.

  7. #52
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    on top of being an nation of whiners and this all being mental, our "pillars are strong". It's unfortunate that every economic mind, excluding those involved in republican campaigns say otherwise:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/bu...hp&oref=slogin

  8. #53
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    looks like the secretary of the treasury is a whiner who is having mental issues as well:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,386961,00.html

    spin it George W, tell us how the economy is great and that the tax cuts for the rich should be made permanent, haven't heard that one for a while.

  9. #54
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    Well, to a certain extent, he was right. He's not 100% right, but there is a bit of mental hype there.

    But nothing changes the fact that unemployment is rising, housing costs are ridiculous, the financing markets are shaky, gas prices are out of the realm of reality, actual incomes are declining compared to inflation, etc.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbsmets View Post
    Well, to a certain extent, he was right. He's not 100% right, but there is a bit of mental hype there.

    But nothing changes the fact that unemployment is rising, housing costs are ridiculous, the financing markets are shaky, gas prices are out of the realm of reality, actual incomes are declining compared to inflation, etc.
    well... expectations play a role with regard to inflation -- which then has an impact on real income. But I don't think inflation is up simply because people's expectations for it are up.
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