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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    So we have bases but don't occupy them or???

    I need to learn and experience what exactly?? I mean I only served in Iraq the first go around so I am sure I am way off base.

    So the bases we have in Iraq right now are not agreed to or what??

    You made a statement regarding bases in foreign countries and I rebutted that statement that is all really.

    I wonder if those bases we have had in other countries were always just bases and not due to a need or an invite???

    As far as having a base in Iraq I don't think it would be necessary

    The one we have in Saud should be enough

    My point was we still have bases in other places long after the conflict is over............don't you think that could happen in Iraq???
    they weren't agreed to at all. We invaded and built them, or took existing ones over. WE didn't ask anyone for permission to build them in Iraq, they served a military purpose only and allow for an anchor after the occupying force leaves.

    the bases in germany and italy were built during a war as well. WE recently received permission from the italian government to expand the base in vincenza, much to the dissatisfaction of the Italian people, purely for the benefit of stimulating local economy with american money.

    whatever point you are trying to make about current bases is certainly not that we are an occupying force there, but certainly are in Iraq. They are two separate issues and we are being asked not to occupy after a certain date. That doesn't sound too out of line to me.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    they weren't agreed to at all. We invaded and built them, or took existing ones over. WE didn't ask anyone for permission to build them in Iraq, they served a military purpose only and allow for an anchor after the occupying force leaves.

    the bases in germany and italy were built during a war as well. WE recently received permission from the italian government to expand the base in vincenza, much to the dissatisfaction of the Italian people, purely for the benefit of stimulating local economy with american money.

    whatever point you are trying to make about current bases is certainly not that we are an occupying force there, but certainly are in Iraq. They are two separate issues and we are being asked not to occupy after a certain date. That doesn't sound too out of line to me.
    My point was that we were an occupying force at one time in those countries as well.

    I was pointing to the past to point out what could happen in Iraq in the future.

    I don't agree with a large presence in the middle east from the USA.

    I have been saying pull out and let Israel handle their own neighborhood.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    No I can understand what you are saying. I just think you are in denial about Gitmo, and 1,000,000 dead Iraqi's. We went there for Oil dude which is no better then what Stallin or Hittler did.

    Gitmo is not a gas chamber where millions of people have been put to death.

    I don't recall any large round up of Iraqi citizens or arab citizens in this country to march them off to the gas chamber.

    I knew you knew what I was getting at though
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    South Korea
    Germany
    Japan

    I am not sure why it is good to know we have people over there being shot at and blown up though.
    Japan have a hostile N. Korea testing weapons in their shared water and China building a fleet. Germany don't have spend money own defense. South Korea has a crazed neighbor and China. These three nations can't be compared to Iraq because their needs are different.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    Japan have a hostile N. Korea testing weapons in their shared water and China building a fleet. Germany don't have spend money own defense. South Korea has a crazed neighbor and China. These three nations can't be compared to Iraq because their needs are different.

    No neighbor is crazier than Iran seems to be right now.......refusing to stop enriching uranium when several nations including russia and china have asked them to stop
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  6. #21
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    Yeah, this supports my belief that the only people more shortsighted than the heads of the Democratic Party are the Iraqi officials.

    Isn't it time for you douche bags to take another month off from work, Iraqi Cabinet?
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Yeah, this supports my belief that the only people more shortsighted than the heads of the Democratic Party are the Iraqi officials.

    Isn't it time for you douche bags to take another month off from work, Iraqi Cabinet?
    considering they are heavily influenced and in communication with the president that has taken more vacation than any other in history, you're probably right

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raider_Vet View Post
    No I can understand what you are saying. I just think you are in denial about Gitmo, and 1,000,000 dead Iraqi's. We went there for Oil dude which is no better then what Stallin or Hittler did.
    What does "go there for oil" mean?

  9. #24
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    No better than what Hitler or Stalin did? That doesn't even make sense. What's Moveon.org brainwashing you guys with these days

    The worst part of this is it's the inefficiency and lack of readiness on the part of the Iraqi government that has kept us in Iraq and will keep us in there even longer than we would if they stepped up to the plate.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    No neighbor is crazier than Iran seems to be right now.......refusing to stop enriching uranium when several nations including russia and china have asked them to stop
    We see Iran as crazy, because they want to stir crap up in the middle east against us. I don't think they are a major threat to Iran, besides they share the same brand of Islam as some of the Iraqis. If anything they want closer ties with the Iraqis. If Russia and China really wanted Iran to stop, that country would go cold turkey. What the superpowers said in public isn't always their true face. Iran is a thorn in the america's side. What upset america is a delight to China and Russia. Besides Iran got oil, so they will cut them some slack.
    As the only country to use nuclear weapons on another country, what right do we have in tell someone not to build a bomb?
    Last edited by WES445; 07-09-2008 at 02:30 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccugrad1 View Post
    I also think though steelcity that there comes a point in time where you need to force somebodies hand a little bit. Let's face facts: Neither George W. Bush or John McCain want the troops out of Iraq anytime soon. The Iraqis themselves know that US Troops have been there long enough and if Iraq is to truly become a democratic nation, then they need to do things themselves without US Troops being at every corner.
    Quote Originally Posted by PHX-SOXFAN View Post
    Yes, it does make us invaders. and it's not a matter of not appreciating the work of individual soldiers but more a matter of standing on their own to feet and being an independent nation. Quite a spin job going on in your head. Think about it this way, name one country that would openly welcome an occupying force for the last 6 years and look forward to an open ended occupation...... I'll give you as much time as you need. even countries in the worst situations would want to stand on their own two feet in time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    South Korea
    Germany
    Japan

    I am not sure why it is good to know we have people over there being shot at and blown up though.
    I dont think you guys understood me the first time or missed out on part of sarcasm. Probably +80% of Americans dont want us over there any longer. The Iraqis dont want us over there any longer. So why the hell have soldiers over there practically as policemen getting killed?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcityroller View Post
    I dont think you guys understood me the first time or missed out on part of sarcasm. Probably +80% of Americans dont want us over there any longer. The Iraqis dont want us over there any longer. So why the hell have soldiers over there practically as policemen getting killed?
    b/c this administration will never admit failure....it will be over as soon as the elections are thank god.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    As the only country to use nuclear weapons on another country, what right do we have in tell someone not to build a bomb?
    Other than the fact that their president denies the Holocaust and wants to destroy Israel and the West and their Supreme Leader is an extremely radical Muslim?
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelcityroller View Post
    I dont think you guys understood me the first time or missed out on part of sarcasm. Probably +80% of Americans dont want us over there any longer. The Iraqis dont want us over there any longer. So why the hell have soldiers over there practically as policemen getting killed?
    I agree. There's no point in being there any longer. This proves it.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    No better than what Hitler or Stalin did? That doesn't even make sense. What's Moveon.org brainwashing you guys with these days

    The worst part of this is it's the inefficiency and lack of readiness on the part of the Iraqi government that has kept us in Iraq and will keep us in there even longer than we would if they stepped up to the plate.
    I would have to say it's the inefficiency and lack of planning from the beginning by W' administration that have created the majority of the mess in Iraq. A bad idea, poorly planned, in addition to ignoring the man who had good ideas and an unbiased view.

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