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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post

    But if you afforded Bush the same type of "accomplishing goals" thing...he's

    -Overthrew the Taliban
    Glad that one stuck.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonman View Post
    I agree with the war in Afghanistan. I agree with Obama when says he'll go into Pakistan even if Musharrif does get his panties in a bunch. I don't agree we have any business conducting Operation Iraqi Freedom and I was against the policy ever since sent up the first trial balloon.

    Oil prices are up, like everything else is up, in small part due to supply and demand; in major part due to Bush and the Republican Congress lack of fiscal discipline of running dual deficits and for the most part due to our banks speculating in unregualted futures markets.

    Now we have the untenable situation where commodity prices are driving currency values.

    Me spin? It's called reality Randy. I ain't livin' in some Goldilocks economy and believin' in the fairy tale that the Global Economy is going to rescue us somehow. We are the world's biggest customer. If we can't buy it, they can't build it.
    Reality............BL did all that .........really???

    You act like you have a say or a choice in wars and who we fight and who we don't fight.

    If Obama gets elected and sits down with the military folks in DC and listens, we won't be invading Pakistan either.

    Then we get right to the point of your whole problem, BUSH and REPUBLICANS!!! Well you know there is another group involved, a group that has been enabling and assisting Bush and the republicans..........THE DEMOCRATS!

    Oh no Randy they have been doing everything they can for America...............MY FOOT. They are just waiting there turn ........to funnel your tax dollars to what they think is important..........ALL POPPYCOCK.

    Oh you will feel better about it for a minute I am sure........my guy won my guy won

    But now you say Bush and the republicans are at fault........maybe BL and Bush and the republicans combined to triple screw the world

    Obama a politician for change????

    He hasn't even been around long enough to know where to start looking
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    Bin Laden has only one goal.

    What you are talking about, is the way he thinks he can accomplish that goal.

    But if you afforded Bush the same type of "accomplishing goals" thing...he's

    -Overthrew Hussein's government
    -Captured Hussein
    -Overthrew the Taliban
    -Elections in Iraq
    -Elections in Afghanistan
    -A decrease in Iraq violence with "the surge"


    They also think we all carry around guns all the time.
    yeah we saw the "Mission Accomplished" sign on the carrier, he must have done something. Too bad it's taken several failures, stepping down, firings, and completely ignoring the one man with credentials on the issue to learn his lesson. Also too bad they took their eye off the one target that was threat and now the Taliban and violence in afganistan is very high again.

    Did he ever find the wmd's that we went there for in the first place? That's what I thought, way to accomplish those goals W!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Reality............BL did all that .........really???

    You act like you have a say or a choice in wars and who we fight and who we don't fight.

    If Obama gets elected and sits down with the military folks in DC and listens, we won't be invading Pakistan either.

    Then we get right to the point of your whole problem, BUSH and REPUBLICANS!!! Well you know there is another group involved, a group that has been enabling and assisting Bush and the republicans..........THE DEMOCRATS!

    Oh no Randy they have been doing everything they can for America...............MY FOOT. They are just waiting there turn ........to funnel your tax dollars to what they think is important..........ALL POPPYCOCK.

    Oh you will feel better about it for a minute I am sure........my guy won my guy won

    But now you say Bush and the republicans are at fault........maybe BL and Bush and the republicans combined to triple screw the world

    Obama a politician for change????

    He hasn't even been around long enough to know where to start looking
    I give you facts. You give me rhetoric. I understand Randy I do. After 30 years of the Reagan Revolution the party of ideas has brought a 40+% decline in the value of the USD, two failed wars, dual deficits, higher unemployment, kicked children off healthcare and protected chicken chicken chasers like Mark Foley.

    Is it any wonder one Republican is reduced to rhetoric?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonman View Post
    I give you facts. You give me rhetoric. I understand Randy I do. After 30 years of the Reagan Revolution the party of ideas has brought a 40+% decline in the value of the USD, two failed wars, dual deficits, higher unemployment, kicked children off healthcare and protected chicken chicken chasers like Mark Foley.

    Is it any wonder one Republican is reduced to rhetoric?
    You give me facts???

    Exactly what facts??

    You take some circumstantial BS and try to pin it as a victory for BL.

    I agree that things are not great, at least I am not trying to spin it like a victory for the enemy.

    Rhetoric.......that is exactly what you are doing..........Republican??? Hardly........I actually place blame firmly on our govt BOTH sides of the aisle........I don't cherry pick or play favorites like some
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    You give me facts???

    Exactly what facts??

    You take some circumstantial BS and try to pin it as a victory for BL.

    I agree that things are not great, at least I am not trying to spin it like a victory for the enemy.

    Rhetoric.......that is exactly what you are doing..........Republican??? Hardly........I actually place blame firmly on our govt BOTH sides of the aisle........I don't cherry pick or play favorites like some
    Well Randy If you don't know the purchasing power of your dollar has shrunk by more than 40% since Bush invaded Iraq then I guess you just don't have any dollars in your pocket.

    You can deny the quote that OBL wanted oil to rise to $144.00 per bll and the fact it did last week.

    And you can deny such an esteemed opinion as that of Eli Broad who said recently, "This will be the longest and deepest recession since WWll" and you can insist it doesn't have anything to do with 1/2 trillion we've spent in Iraq and continue to run up at $2.5 billion per week. No OBL didn't seek to bankrupt us, is that what yer sayin' there Randy?

    yeah I understand that you blame everybody on both sides of the aisle. A lot of Bush supporters are denying they are or were Republicans these days.

  7. #37
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    and I clearly understand you don't

    not very objective of you but whatever
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  8. #38
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    I have a really quick unrelated question for you guys.

    I know some of you were talking about Arabic and how Bin Laden is just as good as Bin Ladin because of sound pronounciation.

    I'm majoring in Government and Politics starting this fall and I wanted to start another language sophomore year. I'm between Chinese and Arabic, and I was wondering if anyone speaks either, and the level of difficulty one faces when starting it. Though it's a romance language, I do speak french. I realize Chinese and Arabic are different, but I don't know if it would help at all (it would probably help more with Italian or Spanish). I also know some basic latin.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

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  9. #39
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    Well Randy If you don't know the purchasing power of your dollar has shrunk by more than 40% since Bush invaded Iraq then I guess you just don't have any dollars in your pocket.
    Yes. But it's on you to prove a causal relationship.

    You can deny the quote that OBL wanted oil to rise to $144.00 per bll and the fact it did last week.
    Again. You'd have to prove a causal relationship between the actions of OBL, and the price of oil.

    And you can deny such an esteemed opinion as that of Eli Broad
    Why is his opinion esteemed?

    A lot of Bush supporters are denying they are or were Republicans these days
    I'm a Bush supporter. I would have voted for him in 2004 if I could have voted.

    But I get what you're saying. It's kind of like liberals who insist on being called "progressives"

  10. #40
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    yeah we saw the "Mission Accomplished" sign on the carrier, he must have done something.
    You know. Being sarcastic, and making a legitimate point, are not the same thing.

    Too bad it's taken several failures, stepping down, firings, and completely ignoring the one man with credentials on the issue to learn his lesson.
    Yeah. What's your point exactly?

    Also too bad they took their eye off the one target that was threat and now the Taliban and violence in afganistan is very high again.
    Let me ask you a question. Which is more of a threat to world security...a resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan, or Iran establishing a strong presence in Iraq?

    Did he ever find the wmd's that we went there for in the first place?
    Uh...no. Point? Do you have one?

    That's what I thought, way to accomplish those goals W!
    Did you ignore the actual substance of the point I was making? Next time you quote a post of mine. Please respond to what it is I'm saying. And the comparison I was making, in relation to Moonman's point.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    I have a really quick unrelated question for you guys.

    I know some of you were talking about Arabic and how Bin Laden is just as good as Bin Ladin because of sound pronounciation.

    I'm majoring in Government and Politics starting this fall and I wanted to start another language sophomore year. I'm between Chinese and Arabic, and I was wondering if anyone speaks either, and the level of difficulty one faces when starting it. Though it's a romance language, I do speak french. I realize Chinese and Arabic are different, but I don't know if it would help at all (it would probably help more with Italian or Spanish). I also know some basic latin.
    I don't know much about either, but I've spent a good deal of time studying Japanese. "Kanji", one of the several writing systems in Japanese, is the set of characters that derive from Chinese origin. If you see written Chinese and Japanese, they'll look about the same to you, and that's because they are quite similar, and in the case of some characters, the same (most characters have evolved into forms that are now different from their Chinese origins as they diverged over the centuries).

    I'll tell you this much, man: Kanji is a *****. There are approximately 2,000 characters that are in the "standard" set (used in newspapers, etc.). I've studied probably in the neighborhood of 300 of them; I recognize/remember far fewer than that, and am actually able to write from memory only a handful. Don't underestimate the level of dedication required to actually gain a solid handle on reading and writing in Chinese.

    Also, Chinese is a tonal language, meaning that words with the same "sounds", for example, "ma", are actually completely different words depending on their intonation: a falling intonation and it means "cow", a rising intonation and it means "mother", a down/up/down, and up/down/up, and others still all are separate, different words.

    I know less about Arabic, but if what little I think I know is correct, the system of writing is actually an alphabet somewhat similar to the Roman alphabet we use. I don't know how many letters it has, but I'd assume in the neighborhood of 30-60, which means you're looking at a much more manageable task when considering mastering the reading and writing of the language, as compared to Chinese. I also am under the impression that Arabic is not a tonal language. I'm not completely sure if that's right, but if it is, then the pronunciation should also be more manageable than Chinese.


    I'm definitely not trying to steer you away from Chinese and towards Arabic. Which way you go is going to be based on a whole lot of different factors. But if one of those factors is the ease of learning the language, I'd have to assume that Arabic is the easier of the two.

    Hope that helps.
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  12. #42
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    Thanks a lot. That does help quite a bit.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    I have a really quick unrelated question for you guys.

    I know some of you were talking about Arabic and how Bin Laden is just as good as Bin Ladin because of sound pronounciation.

    I'm majoring in Government and Politics starting this fall and I wanted to start another language sophomore year. I'm between Chinese and Arabic, and I was wondering if anyone speaks either, and the level of difficulty one faces when starting it. Though it's a romance language, I do speak french. I realize Chinese and Arabic are different, but I don't know if it would help at all (it would probably help more with Italian or Spanish). I also know some basic latin.
    Go with Chinese. It'll be more important in 20-30 years when we don't care about oil any more.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    You know. Being sarcastic, and making a legitimate point, are not the same thing.


    Yeah. What's your point exactly?


    Let me ask you a question. Which is more of a threat to world security...a resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan, or Iran establishing a strong presence in Iraq?


    Uh...no. Point? Do you have one?


    Did you ignore the actual substance of the point I was making? Next time you quote a post of mine. Please respond to what it is I'm saying. And the comparison I was making, in relation to Moonman's point.
    actually my point was that he accomplished all those things you pointed out after failing miserably for years, having to fire incompetent people that he put in charge of this terrible idea. In addition there were no wmd's, the point is that was the major reason for going into this war, Remember? Don't act like that wasn't pushed down our throat as the major reason. The goals you listed are a biproduct of failing so many times from poor planning and a poor idea, yet having no choice but to put all our resources into acheiving some success for the people we have inconvenienced.

    My sarcasm also proves a point that this idiot put a banner behind him saying mission accomplished like he did something. And that was five years ago. Do you see the whole pattern of this marketing campaign yet? What did he accomplish at that time? I thought we went to eliminate a threat? Turns out there was no threat, but now there is. Talk about irony.

    Obviously you are either too young, since you said you couldn't vote in 04, or you just don't remember sending Colin Powell to the UN with BS intel and the marketing campaign for this unjust war. It was not about elections, it was about a threat to our security, and all out findings have proven that there was none until we invaded. So don't hold W up as some high and mighty liberator. There are several points here but all link back to being fed lies as reasons for the war, having no plan, putting idiots in charge, and ignoring the one man who is credible and level headed. I see you left that part out of my post where I referenced disregarding and forcing Powell out of the cabinet because of his dissent. Convenient of you, especially since he is probably the most respected person on the issue of combat, war, planning, and was also the sec of state at the time.

    Which brings me to my next point about sec of state. Can any of you honestly say that you don't see Condi as purely a "yes woman"? what are her original thoughts that weren't fed to her from W and cheney? I know powell had some, it pissed off those who wanted to market an unjust war and it cost him his job.
    Last edited by PHX-SOXFAN; 07-09-2008 at 11:53 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    Go with Chinese. It'll be more important in 20-30 years when we don't care about oil any more.
    In 20-30 years, the Chinese will be the top dog in this world.

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