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  1. #1
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    Possible McCain VP pick Jindal deals blow to separation of church and state

    Yes folks, from that man who brought you chemical castration, here's a new law that allows schools to permit science teachers with religious agendas to teach religion in science classes.

    Chalk one up for the ignorance of the American public!


    Jindal signature renews evolution debate
    6/27/2008, 5:05 a.m. CDT
    The Associated Press

    BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — Governor Bobby Jindal has signed the legislation that renewed the debate in Louisiana over the role of religion in the class room.

    Jindal signed Senate Bill 733 by Ben Nevers of Bogalusa, which supporters say is designed to open up "critical thinking" about scientific topics such as evolution, cloning and global warming. Opponents say the bill is really a veiled attempt to introduce religious views about man's creation into public school science classes.

    The Legislature's Web site says the bill was signed earlier this week.

    The bill says teachers must stick to approved science text books, but can supplement those books with other materials about scientific topics.
    nola.com

    EDITORIAL
    The new bill doesn’t mention either creationism or its close cousin, intelligent design. It explicitly disavows any intent to promote a religious doctrine. It doesn’t try to ban Darwin from the classroom or order schools to do anything. It simply requires the state board of education, if asked by local school districts, to help create an environment that promotes “critical thinking” and “objective discussion” about not only evolution and the origins of life but also about global warming and human cloning, two other bÍtes noires of the right. Teachers would be required to teach the standard textbook but could use supplementary materials to critique it.

    That may seem harmless. But it would have the pernicious effect of implying that evolution is only weakly supported and that there are valid competing scientific theories when there are not. In school districts foolish enough to head down this path, the students will likely emerge with a shakier understanding of science.
    nytimes



    This is excellent news for all those countries competing with the United States economically and technologically. Their educational advantage over America just got that much stronger.

    Not such excellent news for our Constitution, though. Oh well, I guess that antiquated document will just have to take a backseat to the theocratic agenda of Jindal and the religious right...
    Last edited by DenButsu; 06-28-2008 at 11:55 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I'm on the right, but not the religious right. If I read this correctly, I dont really have a problem with it. Yeah, separation of church and state, I know. There's always been a lot of issues with this crap. I guess I wish we were able to see both sides legally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHG722 View Post
    I'm on the right, but not the religious right. If I read this correctly, I dont really have a problem with it. Yeah, separation of church and state, I know. There's always been a lot of issues with this crap. I guess I wish we were able to see both sides legally.
    i just wish we were able to see both sides intelligently.
    evolution is ALOT ALOT more rock solid than what BS garbage cult religion trash they might try to teach you now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cambovenzi View Post
    i just wish we were able to see both sides intelligently.
    Religion is ALOT ALOT more rock solid than what BS garbage cult Darwinim that threatens the lives of those who don't toe the line trash they might try to teach you now.
    Fixed.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Fixed.
    lol?
    lets go see the easter bunny guys.
    b/c thats obviously real too.

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    Jindal

    Jindal will not be the VP. I'd be willing to bet 100 bucks he'll be the nominee in 12 or 16.

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    Yeah how dare we have critical thinking. How dare people talk about flaws in Darwin's Theory of Evolution, Global Warming, cloning, etc.

    And let's not even get into a discussion about how overdone the whole separation of church and state is. 'Cause that current system is a huge misconstruction of the Founding Fathers intentions.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Yeah how dare we have critical thinking. How dare people talk about flaws in Darwin's Theory of Evolution, Global Warming, cloning, etc.

    And let's not even get into a discussion about how overdone the whole separation of church and state is. 'Cause that current system is a huge misconstruction of the Founding Fathers intentions.
    Critical thinking is a belief in a supernatural being that knows all, sees all, hears all, created all, can do all and is all but is always broke. Just can't handle money.

    Thank you George Carlin.

    So you believe in the supernatural, forces outside of nature and you call that critical thinking? You believe in the totally unproven, accepted totally on faith absent any and all physical and circumstantial evidence and you demand to be taken seriously as a critical thinker? Whoa, now I've heard it all.

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    I never paid attention in science class, so I have no idea what they teach.

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    If they want to teach "God created the world" they can do it in bible schools, not public schools.

    Questioning gravity - or Darwinism - based on religious viewpoints is not critical thinking. It's religious thinking.

    I had a class for discussing ideas like that when I was in high school.

    It was called "religion". As it should have been.

    Let science be science. If you want to believe the earth is flat, that's your prerogative. But the scientific community has standards that are based on objectively measurable and provable FACTS. Evolution is very strongly supported by those FACT things. Creationism is not.
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    I don't see this as that big of a deal.

    It's a high school science class anyway...how important is that really?

    All high school (and public school in general) did was waste my time.

    evolution is ALOT ALOT more rock solid than what BS garbage cult religion trash they might try to teach you now.
    I don't get why they have to be mutually exclusive. That's what I've never understood.

    And the way I look at religion, and a belief in God, and God creating the universe is this: I don't believe it. I just don't. I don't think there is a God. But WAY WAY WAY smarter people than me, have been convinced there was a god. Newton, for example. Thought that the way the universe worked, and the way everything fit together implied there had to be a creator.

    That's one of the reasons why quite a few atheists bother me. They're so condescending, and they have no idea what they are talking about, really. They say things like "Evolution is science and I believe science..." but they're bull ****ting you. They know nothing about the theory of evolution. They know nothing about science in general. They are just morons. God I hate college kids.....

    that is all.
    Last edited by gcoll; 06-29-2008 at 06:33 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    I don't see this as that big of a deal.

    It's a high school science class anyway...how important is that really?

    All high school (and public school in general) did was waste my time.


    I don't get why they have to be mutually exclusive. That's what I've never understood.

    And the way I look at religion, and a belief in God, and God creating the universe is this: I don't believe it. I just don't. I don't think there is a God. But WAY WAY WAY smarter people than me, have been convinced there was a god. Newton, for example. Thought that the way the universe worked, and the way everything fit together implied there had to be a creator.

    That's one of the reasons why quite a few atheists bother me. They're so condescending, and they have no idea what they are talking about, really. They say things like "Evolution is science and I believe science..." but they're bull ****ting you. They know nothing about the theory of evolution. They know nothing about science in general. They are just morons. God I hate college kids.....

    that is all.
    And that's fine. That's what Theology classes are for. You can learn what happened in science classes and then go take theology to get the philosophy on why it happened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    And that's fine. That's what Theology classes are for. You can learn what happened in science classes and then go take theology to get the philosophy on why it happened.
    Yeah. That's cool with me.

    You seem to be able to read and write and interpret and analyze pretty well. Was that all from home schooling?
    I didn't learn nothing from public school. (to clarify, this is as it is written. It's not meant to be slang or anything....it means I did learn things in public school)

    But I won't go further into this type of thing, because I think it'll make me sound like a douche. But, basically....any program that could have helped me out, was cut...and in general, me and students like me are pushed to the side. And I think the lack of any challenge in school...bred kind of a laziness and almost bitterness in me, that just recently I've been able to correct, and get motivated.

    I hope that doesn't sound too "douche bagg-ish"

    lol?
    lets go see the easter bunny guys.
    b/c thats obviously real too.
    This would be the type of comment that would get under my skin.

    But when it comes to questioning religious assumptions, why is that an attack? Why is it wrong for me to put angels and tooth fairies and Satan and the Easter Bunny and a talking bush and Santa Claus all in the same category
    Because it's condescending.

    Because those comparisons are making fun of the belief in God.

    Because instead of rationally discussing the existence of God, you are mocking the belief in God, by comparing it to a belief in fairy tales.

    And there are a lot of very devout religious people of many different faiths - including Christianity - who feel exactly the same way as I do. Who consider those stories to be metaphorical rather than literal.
    Right. But do you see a difference between a discussion that involves:

    "But, do you think the burning bush, and a lot of these biblical stories could be metaphors, rather than meant to be taken literally?"

    and:

    "Jeez. You believe in a talking burning bush? haha. Do you believe in the tooth fairy too? What about Santa Clause?"

    See the difference? It's a mutual respect thing. Religious people violate it as well. They can be very condescending as well. But I've argued with atheists more than I've argued with religious people. Because atheists annoy me more.
    Last edited by gcoll; 06-30-2008 at 07:00 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    All high school (and public school in general) did was waste my time.
    You seem to be able to read and write and interpret and analyze pretty well. Was that all from home schooling?
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    Yeah, agreed.

    Not all atheists are arrogant or condescending. But there's something about smugly declaring you know more than humans throughout history, men like Newton, that leads to arrogance.
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

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