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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    Obama's principles aren't unity. That's a talking point of his. But he's a pretty far left guy, with pretty one sided views. He's not exactly a centrist.
    If you're watching closely, you'll see that a lot of his recent actions are in fact angering the left, namely his support of the FISA bill and his recent statements on abortion. The degree of religiosity in his rhetoric also exceeds what I'd say a lot of liberals would normally be comfortable with; there's a lot of "god talk" in there.

    Some magazine created a bogus rating system that named him the most liberal voting Senator blah blah blah and of course all the networks and papers just ran with it. But if you actually dig deeper than the hype you'll find that there are some significant ways where he deviates from a strict adherence to the most central and most popular Democratic positions.

    Not the least of which is his "much-closer-to-it-but-not-quite-universal" health care plan - which was, for me, the only real outstanding issue that I preferred Hillary's stance on.
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  2. #62
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    Because like most sane people, it's hard for a presidential candidate to be gung ho abortion
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by blenderboy5 View Post
    Because like most sane people, it's hard for a presidential candidate to be gung ho abortion
    But for Obama in particular, it's risky. There are a lot of Hillary supporters who he hasn't won over, and some who he has, well he's on pretty thin ice with them. Anything less than a full-on pro choice stance really runs the risk of alienating them.
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  4. #64
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    If you're watching closely, you'll see that a lot of his recent actions are in fact angering the left, namely his support of the FISA bill and his recent statements on abortion. The degree of religiosity in his rhetoric also exceeds what I'd say a lot of liberals would normally be comfortable with; there's a lot of "god talk" in there.
    You don't have to be watching all that closely to notice that, or assume it was inevitable. Candidates make a dash for the center, once the nomination is locked up.

    But if you actually dig deeper than the hype you'll find that there are some significant ways where he deviates from a strict adherence to the most central and most popular Democratic positions.
    Yeah. A few. But for the most part, he's pretty left leaning on most issues. He was certainly further left than Hillary.

    Not the least of which is his "much-closer-to-it-but-not-quite-universal" health care plan - which was, for me, the only real outstanding issue that I preferred Hillary's stance on.
    Yes, the "doesn't require everyone to be on it" thing. Why would you want to force people to use government health care, who don't want it?

    If given an option, I would opt out.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    You don't have to be watching all that closely to notice that, or assume it was inevitable. Candidates make a dash for the center, once the nomination is locked up.


    Yeah. A few. But for the most part, he's pretty left leaning on most issues. He was certainly further left than Hillary.


    Yes, the "doesn't require everyone to be on it" thing. Why would you want to force people to use government health care, who don't want it?

    If given an option, I would opt out.
    It depends on the issues. He's more anti-war than Hillary. But he's a lot more moderate with regards to health care policy; economic and tax policy; and most importantly he's also got a very strong push for individuality and self-improvement -- which are definitely traditional Republican things.

    He is who he is. The National Journal tried to paint him as an extreme liberal, but that label's not really sticking because it's just not true. More Americans view him as a moderate than view McCain as a moderate.

    Generally speaking, candidates typically shift to the center after the primaries end. However in this case, both candidates are leaning to the right of where they probably really stand. For Obama, that puts him square in the center. For McCain, that's putting him out on the right. Obama's looking to win new voters. McCain's looking to lock up his fragile base.
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  6. #66
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    YES SHE CAN

    HILLARY VP 08!


  7. #67
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    Generally speaking, candidates typically shift to the center after the primaries end. However in this case, both candidates are leaning to the right of where they probably really stand. For Obama, that puts him square in the center. For McCain, that's putting him out on the right. Obama's looking to win new voters. McCain's looking to lock up his fragile base.
    That seems pretty accurate.

    Although I wouldn't call where Obama currently is as "square in the center"

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    That seems pretty accurate.

    Although I wouldn't call where Obama currently is as "square in the center"
    He voted for the bipartisan FISA bill. He voted for the bipartisan medicare bill. He's not really pushing for anything on the left. He's even loosened his stance on Iraq -- saying that his trip to there should help him see the "facts on the ground" (Republican code) so he can make a better assessment as to when a troop withdrawal should begin. And then of course there's his courting of the evangelists.

    At this point he's looking a lot more like Arlen Spector than like Russ Feingold.
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  9. #69
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    You guys are over looking a very sound choice. A guy that will give him some creditibility with the toothless Appalachian vote and help bridge experience gap. Senator Sam Nunn of Georgia. Argueably the strongest Democrat in foreign relations, super intelligent and well respected in Washington.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    He voted for the bipartisan FISA bill. He voted for the bipartisan medicare bill. He's not really pushing for anything on the left. He's even loosened his stance on Iraq -- saying that his trip to there should help him see the "facts on the ground" (Republican code) so he can make a better assessment as to when a troop withdrawal should begin. And then of course there's his courting of the evangelists.

    At this point he's looking a lot more like Arlen Spector than like Russ Feingold.
    Ari, very good post. I agree Obama is closer to center than far left. He comes off as a pull yourself up by the boot straps kind of guy. His platform seems to emphasize overcoming poverty not simply waddling in it.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearAD View Post
    You guys are over looking a very sound choice. A guy that will give him some creditibility with the toothless Appalachian vote and help bridge experience gap. Senator Sam Nunn of Georgia. Argueably the strongest Democrat in foreign relations, super intelligent and well respected in Washington.
    and he's against abortion choice... that's not exactly what Obama needs if he's still trying to shore up the PUMAs.

    if he's going for the center by taking a pro-lifer, Hagel's a much better choice.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearAD View Post
    You guys are over looking a very sound choice. A guy that will give him some creditibility with the toothless Appalachian vote and help bridge experience gap. Senator Sam Nunn of Georgia. Argueably the strongest Democrat in foreign relations, super intelligent and well respected in Washington.
    This guy mentioned Sam Nunn in post #4 on this thread. So you must have meant, "you other guys."

    Obama is neither right or left, he's a politician. He came out of nowhere and captured the "anybody but another Clinton" majority in the Democrat Party. He owes nobody and would be the first such President since Teddy Roosevelt.

    McCain is a DOD tool. His relationship to people like Gramm, Black and now Rove indicate that he his willing to whore for the financial, insurance, real estate and big pharma as well. McCain will pick someone safe and acceptable to corporate America so as to assuage any fears that he really is a maverick.

    Obama on the other hand is someone we learn about as we go. His campaign is very much flying by the seat of its pants. I read a report the other day that Hillary hasn't even been vetted by the Obama camp. It won't be Clinton. Nunn would be a safe pick, but I think Barrack will choose a woman.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonman View Post
    Obama's the most magical person that's ever lived. He makes me feel faint and my leg shape. I have a feeling he's a non-denominational prophet reincarnated and I know, just know that he'll do everything right because he's so magical! I plan on starting a "Send your first born to Barack" club because he's such a rock star and I LOVE HIM!!!
    Fixed
    "Compromise, hell! That's what has happened to us all down the line -- and that's the very cause of our woes. If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?"

    RIP Jesse Helms

  14. #74
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    ^^^^hahaaha

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonman View Post
    Obama on the other hand is someone we learn about as we go. His campaign is very much flying by the seat of its pants. I read a report the other day that Hillary hasn't even been vetted by the Obama camp. It won't be Clinton. Nunn would be a safe pick, but I think Barrack will choose a woman.
    Not a chance. If a woman is picked to be his running mate, it will be Hillary. Choosing a woman to be the VP candidate, and having it not be Hillary would be tantamount to saying that she wasn't good enough to be President.

    Choosing another woman would be a huge slap in the face to all Hillary supporters (who continue to be Hillary supporters) and are unsure as to whether or not they're going to actually support Obama.

    I'm not saying that the VP necessarily has to be Mrs. Clinton, but trust me when I say that he cannot go out and choose a woman that isn't her to be his running mate.

    I talked to enough Hillary supporters here in Iowa over the past month and a half to fully comprehend this issue. And, remember, Obama won Iowa back in January -- imagine in generally blue states where he got trounced if he riles a Democratic base. He's already skating on thin ice with Hillary people.
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