The Official Clemson Tigers Thread

[homestarunner93]

Lots of whispers going around that Clemson and FSU are headed to the Big XII sometime this summer. More to come later, I'm sure. Miami/GT/NCSU/VT/Maryland will have to find some way out if they want a relevant football program.

[Mr. October]

Lots of whispers going around that Clemson and FSU are headed to the Big XII sometime this summer. More to come later, I'm sure. Miami/GT/NCSU/VT/Maryland will have to find some way out if they want a relevant football program.

The first domino is about to fall it sounds like. A Clemson beat writer has been saying that Clemson has agreed in principle with Big 12.

My guess:

Big 12- FSU, Clemson, Miami, Louisville, Cincinnati, and ND
B1G- MD, UVA, Rutgers, GT
SEC- NC State and VT

[homestarunner93]

The first domino is about to fall it sounds like. A Clemson beat writer has been saying that Clemson has agreed in principle with Big 12.

My guess:

Big 12- FSU, Clemson, Miami, Louisville, Cincinnati, and ND
B1G- MD, UVA, Rutgers, GT
SEC- NC State and VT

I hope GT finds their way into the Big 12. I'll miss playing them on a regular basis. I doubt Cincinnati is a Big 12 option to be honest, they really don't add much of anything. I would pretty much agree with the rest of what you have on there, though.

[Mr. October]

I hope GT finds their way into the Big 12. I'll miss playing them on a regular basis. I doubt Cincinnati is a Big 12 option to be honest, they really don't add much of anything. I would pretty much agree with the rest of what you have on there, though.

It's possible. I think GT is the B1G's first option and the B1G is GT's first option. Pitt and Syracuse could play into the B1G's options as well. Of course this could all be a power play to get ND to make a move into the ACC. I have a hard time believing that FSU and Clemson really want to make a move into the Big 12 right now and hope they aren't panicking. If they aren't happy in the ACC, I doubt they'll be much happier in a conference with both Texas and ND.

[homestarunner93]

It's possible. I think GT is the B1G's first option and the B1G is GT's first option. Pitt and Syracuse could play into the B1G's options as well. Of course this could all be a power play to get ND to make a move into the ACC. I have a hard time believing that FSU and Clemson really want to make a move into the Big 12 right now and hope they aren't panicking. If they aren't happy in the ACC, I doubt they'll be much happier in a conference with both Texas and ND.

I seriously doubt Notre Dame is going to the Big 12. There would be way too much of a struggle between them and Texas (not to mention Oklahoma). They're probably Big 10 bound if the ACC falls apart. I hope the ACC goes up in flames. **** the ACC. All they do is coddle UNC. I can't imagine why the Big 10 would be GT's first option, the Big 12 with Florida State and Clemson is a much better fit for them.

[Mr. October]

I seriously doubt Notre Dame is going to the Big 12. There would be way too much of a struggle between them and Texas (not to mention Oklahoma). They're probably Big 10 bound if the ACC falls apart. I hope the ACC goes up in flames. **** the ACC. All they do is coddle UNC. I can't imagine why the Big 10 would be GT's first option, the Big 12 with Florida State and Clemson is a much better fit for them.

The Big 12 is attractive because there isn't equal revenue sharing in the conference, which is why expansion started in the first place with Nebraska and Colorado originally leaving. ND doesn't want to join a conference and especially doesn't want to join the B1G because the only thing they have in common with B1G schools is geography. I think the ACC would be their first choice, but the ACC is close to imploding and they are in no rush to make a move. The Big 12 would be an option if ACC schools join. It definitely would be interesting to see the egos of Texas and ND in the same conference (and if you hate the UNC lovefest of the ACC, you'll just love the Big 12 with Texas and ND).

As far as GT, it's all about fit academically and where to make the most money. B1G fits both of those because they cater to AAU schools (although I believe Nebraska just lost theirs), which GT is, and the B1G does equal revenue sharing. Plus the B1G is probably the most stable conference in the country and will be around forever. The B1G would love to have that Atlanta market and be in SEC territory.

But that Clemson rumor has fizzled from what I heard and there is no offer on the table with them. It looks like the Big 12 is going hard after FSU and ND first. If ND continues to pass, which they probably will, then Clemson will be the next suitor.

[homestarunner93]

The Big 12 is attractive because there isn't equal revenue sharing in the conference, which is why expansion started in the first place with Nebraska and Colorado originally leaving. ND doesn't want to join a conference and especially doesn't want to join the B1G because the only thing they have in common with B1G schools is geography. I think the ACC would be their first choice, but the ACC is close to imploding and they are in no rush to make a move. The Big 12 would be an option if ACC schools join. It definitely would be interesting to see the egos of Texas and ND in the same conference (and if you hate the UNC lovefest of the ACC, you'll just love the Big 12 with Texas and ND).

As far as GT, it's all about fit academically and where to make the most money. B1G fits both of those because they cater to AAU schools (although I believe Nebraska just lost theirs), which GT is, and the B1G does equal revenue sharing. Plus the B1G is probably the most stable conference in the country and will be around forever. The B1G would love to have that Atlanta market and be in SEC territory.

But that Clemson rumor has fizzled from what I heard and there is no offer on the table with them. It looks like the Big 12 is going hard after FSU and ND first. If ND continues to pass, which they probably will, then Clemson will be the next suitor.

I see ND clashing with Texas too much to get along with them in the Big 12. The Big 12 would be different, their commissioner isn't FROM the pet school and doesn't cater to every whim they have. The Big 12 bows to Texas certainly, but it isn't as bad. Not to mention the ACC has screwed Clemson before, so probably not a lot of doubt they would do it again.

The academic fit thing is stupid and just talk. Academics don't matter to athletic conference association unless you're in the ACC, where Swofford talks about it because there is nothing else positive. If Georgia Tech is serious about being a football school, they'll go to the Big 12.

That isn't true. A lot of people say FSU and Clemson are pretty close to being in still. Less people talk about Clemson because the name is smaller than FSU, but ND isn't moving any time soon. Chuck Neinas just said on ESPN that if ND was willing to schedule some Big 12 schools in football, they might be willing to take the rest of their sports without them being a full-time football member. That would be an interesting configuration and may very well come true, with Clemson and FSU moving along to get the conference to 12, while ND is a de facto 13th member and maintains some scheduling flexibility so they can keep their rivalries against teams like USC and Navy.

[Mr. October]

I see ND clashing with Texas too much to get along with them in the Big 12. The Big 12 would be different, their commissioner isn't FROM the pet school and doesn't cater to every whim they have. The Big 12 bows to Texas certainly, but it isn't as bad. Not to mention the ACC has screwed Clemson before, so probably not a lot of doubt they would do it again.

The academic fit thing is stupid and just talk. Academics don't matter to athletic conference association unless you're in the ACC, where Swofford talks about it because there is nothing else positive. If Georgia Tech is serious about being a football school, they'll go to the Big 12.

That isn't true. A lot of people say FSU and Clemson are pretty close to being in still. Less people talk about Clemson because the name is smaller than FSU, but ND isn't moving any time soon. Chuck Neinas just said on ESPN that if ND was willing to schedule some Big 12 schools in football, they might be willing to take the rest of their sports without them being a full-time football member. That would be an interesting configuration and may very well come true, with Clemson and FSU moving along to get the conference to 12, while ND is a de facto 13th member and maintains some scheduling flexibility so they can keep their rivalries against teams like USC and Navy.

I personally believe all this talk about FSU and Clemson is just that and is really posturing by both schools. I really doubt Clemson wants to move, as it is a founding member of the ACC and fits much better there than in the Big 12. It makes no sense geographically and would eat up their travel costs in non revenue sports.

ND and Texas would most certainly clash, but this is all about money and the Big 12 sees ND, like all other conferences, as the big fish still out there. They're going to be a number 1 choice for all conferences. ND doesn't want to go to either the SEC or B1G, so if they are forced to join a conference, it's going to be the Big 12 or ACC. If the ACC crumbles, then they're definitely going to the Big 12.

And yes, Texas and the Big 12 is much worse than the ACC's love for the Carolina schools. Look at how many teams have left the Big 12 in the last two years. Texas caused a huge rift with their Longhorn Network. As bad as Clemson has been treated, it's nothing compared to what Texas AM was treated like by Texas.

As far as academics, it matters to school presidents and board of trustees who are in charge of this. More importantly, academics help reputation and help improve research grants and endowments. This is a good article about it: http://www.mrsec.com/2010/06/the-aca...ce-comparison/

[homestarunner93]

I personally believe all this talk about FSU and Clemson is just that and is really posturing by both schools. I really doubt Clemson wants to move, as it is a founding member of the ACC and fits much better there than in the Big 12. It makes no sense geographically and would eat up their travel costs in non revenue sports.

ND and Texas would most certainly clash, but this is all about money and the Big 12 sees ND, like all other conferences, as the big fish still out there. They're going to be a number 1 choice for all conferences. ND doesn't want to go to either the SEC or B1G, so if they are forced to join a conference, it's going to be the Big 12 or ACC. If the ACC crumbles, then they're definitely going to the Big 12.

And yes, Texas and the Big 12 is much worse than the ACC's love for the Carolina schools. Look at how many teams have left the Big 12 in the last two years. Texas caused a huge rift with their Longhorn Network. As bad as Clemson has been treated, it's nothing compared to what Texas AM was treated like by Texas.

As far as academics, it matters to school presidents and board of trustees who are in charge of this. More importantly, academics help reputation and help improve research grants and endowments. This is a good article about it: http://www.mrsec.com/2010/06/the-aca...ce-comparison/

Yeah right. The ACC will never be an elite football conference. Clemson has a football program that can have sustained greatness. We will never achieve that in the ACC. If a move to the Big 12 is what is required to keep Clemson football nationally relevant, we will make the move. I can guarantee you that. Before all is said and done, the geographical fit will likely not be too bad. Clemson, FSU, probably Louisville, possibly GT in the southeast, plus WVU. The westward length of the Big 12 is not that much different than the extent of the ACC up and down the Atlantic coast, from Boston to Miami. Travel costs would be helped by a lot more football revenue.

I don't know why you keep saying that Notre Dame doesn't want to go to the Big 10. The Big 10 is still a great fit for them. I'm not sure why you're convinced geography is the only fit there, and since you made such a big deal about geography with Clemson, it makes sense for ND too.

ACC has treated Clemson like crap. They, with the strong push of the UNC higher-ups, tacked an extra year onto our probation in the 80s. That is something Texas surely would never do. And if Clemson is going to bow to another school, at least Texas is a school with a good football program (although you wouldn't know it from the past couple of years).

That article doesn't mean a whole lot of anything. It just shows that in some conferences, more good academic schools are aligned than in other conferences. Not to mention the ACC doesn't even share endowments and grants, so it is really just a bunch of bunk and gives people something to talk about than football, which is the major driving factor in any move, and rightly so.

[homestarunner93]

The Baylor247 site, which has been part of the leading group on reporting all of this, says Clemson and FSU intend to inform the ACC they will explore other conference options. AKA goodbye.

[Mr. October]

Yeah right. The ACC will never be an elite football conference. Clemson has a football program that can have sustained greatness. We will never achieve that in the ACC. If a move to the Big 12 is what is required to keep Clemson football nationally relevant, we will make the move. I can guarantee you that. Before all is said and done, the geographical fit will likely not be too bad. Clemson, FSU, probably Louisville, possibly GT in the southeast, plus WVU. The westward length of the Big 12 is not that much different than the extent of the ACC up and down the Atlantic coast, from Boston to Miami. Travel costs would be helped by a lot more football revenue.

The problem is not distance, it's airports. There aren't major airports in Big 12 areas, where as it's much easier and cheaper to fly into Boston, Pittsburgh, or Washington, D.C./Baltimore.

I don't know why you keep saying that Notre Dame doesn't want to go to the Big 10. The Big 10 is still a great fit for them. I'm not sure why you're convinced geography is the only fit there, and since you made such a big deal about geography with Clemson, it makes sense for ND too.

ND is big enough where expenses really aren't a problem for them. They can choose to be in any conference they want. Most programs do not have that luxury. That's why they're discounting the geographical aspect and focusing on other factors. They've said they don't want to join the Big 10 and never will unless they have no choice. That's not my opinion either.

ACC has treated Clemson like crap. They, with the strong push of the UNC higher-ups, tacked an extra year onto our probation in the 80s. That is something Texas surely would never do. And if Clemson is going to bow to another school, at least Texas is a school with a good football program (although you wouldn't know it from the past couple of years).

Well I can't change your opinion, but Texas is the new Notre Dame and has caused a ton of problems for the Big 12. They're also rumored to be the only team in the Big 12 who doesn't want expansion (only 1 team voted against expansion this past month, not sure who but everyone is guessing its Texas because they do not want a conference championship game).

That article doesn't mean a whole lot of anything. It just shows that in some conferences, more good academic schools are aligned than in other conferences. Not to mention the ACC doesn't even share endowments and grants, so it is really just a bunch of bunk and gives people something to talk about than football, which is the major driving factor in any move, and rightly so.

My argument wasn't to give merit to the ACC, but to the B1G and why GT would want to go there and why its their first choice. It's what the ACC aspires to be. The B1G rules college football monetarily and this is a big reason why.

[homestarunner93]

The problem is not distance, it's airports. There aren't major airports in Big 12 areas, where as it's much easier and cheaper to fly into Boston, Pittsburgh, or Washington, D.C./Baltimore.



ND is big enough where expenses really aren't a problem for them. They can choose to be in any conference they want. Most programs do not have that luxury. That's why they're discounting the geographical aspect and focusing on other factors. They've said they don't want to join the Big 10 and never will unless they have no choice. That's not my opinion either.



Well I can't change your opinion, but Texas is the new Notre Dame and has caused a ton of problems for the Big 12. They're also rumored to be the only team in the Big 12 who doesn't want expansion (only 1 team voted against expansion this past month, not sure who but everyone is guessing its Texas because they do not want a conference championship game).



My argument wasn't to give merit to the ACC, but to the B1G and why GT would want to go there and why its their first choice. It's what the ACC aspires to be. The B1G rules college football monetarily and this is a big reason why.

Put the other sports on a bus then. It will be worth it anyways when we start making more football revenue.

Of course ND has said that. They aren't going to admit to wanting to join any conference until it becomes completely evident they have to. Chuck Neinas said that the Big 12 isn't looking at expansion at all right now just yesterday, but that pretty obviously is untrue. You can't play your hand until you get to the decisive moment.

I certainly don't believe that Texas doesn't want expansion. I've read they have spearheaded the efforts. A conference championship game doesn't really hurt them. Expanding the Longhorn Network into new markets isn't going to hurt their ability to make money.

I don't know why you're so certain that the Big 10 is GT's first choice. I still don't see how the academics factors into much of anything, and like I said, the article proves nothing.

Orangebloods (Texas Rivals site) is now reporting that FSU, Clemson, Miami, and Virginia Tech have all had informal conversations with the Big 12, which is certainly interesting. FSU and Miami are definitely the bigger brands here, but Clemson and VT have had far more success recently.

[Mr. October]

[QUOTE=homestarunner93;22273235]Put the other sports on a bus then. It will be worth it anyways when we start making more football revenue. [quote]

I'm not even talking about non-revenue sports. I'm talking about football and how expensive it will be to have 70 players and the coaching staff/trainers/etc that have to travel from Clemson to Lubbock, Waco, etc. And that affects the parents and family as well. You can say so what, but that will affect recruiting when players can't have their family watch them play as easily as they would playing in the ACC or even worse for Clemson, USC-e in the SEC.

Of course ND has said that. They aren't going to admit to wanting to join any conference until it becomes completely evident they have to. Chuck Neinas said that the Big 12 isn't looking at expansion at all right now just yesterday, but that pretty obviously is untrue. You can't play your hand until you get to the decisive moment.

I'm not going to argue this with you because it won't happen. ND won't play in the B1G. ND to the Big 12 is the most likely scenario right now because they could join for Olympic sports and stay independent like they already have in place with the Big East. They may strike a deal to have teams play in football without actually joining. That along with the fact that the Big 12 allows teams free reign of tier 3 TV rights, allows them to still keep their NBC contract.

I certainly don't believe that Texas doesn't want expansion. I've read they have spearheaded the efforts. A conference championship game doesn't really hurt them. Expanding the Longhorn Network into new markets isn't going to hurt their ability to make money.

Expansion doesn't help Texas, unless it's Notre Dame. FSU is enticing too, but they don't want to bring in anyone else because they don't help Texas increase their money significantly enough. A conference championship game hurts Texas' chances at making a BCS bowl. The only benefit a conference championship game offers to Texas is an automatic bid into a BCS bowl, but with auto-bids being killed in a few years, there is no point. Championship games help the bottom feeders by giving them a bigger check.

I don't know why you're so certain that the Big 10 is GT's first choice. I still don't see how the academics factors into much of anything, and like I said, the article proves nothing.

Fair enough. I think it has a lot to do with the people making the decisions. It's the reason why FSU's president came out and said he was against moving.

Orangebloods (Texas Rivals site) is now reporting that FSU, Clemson, Miami, and Virginia Tech have all had informal conversations with the Big 12, which is certainly interesting. FSU and Miami are definitely the bigger brands here, but Clemson and VT have had far more success recently.

Chip Brown is right about 33% of the time, which is really good considering its all rumors he reports. But alot of the 247sports reports I'm reading say it's just smoke without any real basis. That may change next week when the Big 12 meets next week, but I expect it be nothing right now.

[homestarunner93]

I'm not even talking about non-revenue sports. I'm talking about football and how expensive it will be to have 70 players and the coaching staff/trainers/etc that have to travel from Clemson to Lubbock, Waco, etc. And that affects the parents and family as well. You can say so what, but that will affect recruiting when players can't have their family watch them play as easily as they would playing in the ACC or even worse for Clemson, USC-e in the SEC.



I'm not going to argue this with you because it won't happen. ND won't play in the B1G. ND to the Big 12 is the most likely scenario right now because they could join for Olympic sports and stay independent like they already have in place with the Big East. They may strike a deal to have teams play in football without actually joining. That along with the fact that the Big 12 allows teams free reign of tier 3 TV rights, allows them to still keep their NBC contract.



Expansion doesn't help Texas, unless it's Notre Dame. FSU is enticing too, but they don't want to bring in anyone else because they don't help Texas increase their money significantly enough. A conference championship game hurts Texas' chances at making a BCS bowl. The only benefit a conference championship game offers to Texas is an automatic bid into a BCS bowl, but with auto-bids being killed in a few years, there is no point. Championship games help the bottom feeders by giving them a bigger check.



Fair enough. I think it has a lot to do with the people making the decisions. It's the reason why FSU's president came out and said he was against moving.



Chip Brown is right about 33% of the time, which is really good considering its all rumors he reports. But alot of the 247sports reports I'm reading say it's just smoke without any real basis. That may change next week when the Big 12 meets next week, but I expect it be nothing right now.

Not that much more expensive, I don't think. Recruiting is already affected because we're in the ACC. We get less money than SCAR too. I would rather take the chance of recruits feeling like their families might not get to see them (but again, I feel like GT may come along to the Big 12 with FSU and, in the end, it won't be so bad) instead of constantly having to recruit against the SEC label with the ACC and being disadvantaged from a revenue standpoint. I'll take the chance with the Big 12 any time.

I'm not saying that ND won't join the Big 12, but I think you're being a bit ridiculous by totally discounting the Big 10.

Haha, this is great. How do you KNOW that it doesn't increase their revenue enough? This is hilarious. I guess you're in their AD, know the monetary situation of their network and university, and can accurately tell me and everyone else on PSD what makes them money and what doesn't. Texas might need a conference championship game to get into a big bowl game anyways at this point, their football team is not good.

And there are just as many 247 reports that dispute that. There is far too much smoke for this to just be bunk. You would have to be incredibly naive to believe there is nothing behind this right now, after how much has come out already.

[Mr. October]

Comments like this show me you don't really have an idea what is going on with expansion talks:

Texas might need a conference championship game to get into a big bowl game anyways at this point, their football team is not good.

It doesn't matter how good or bad they are right now. They have the most resources in college football right now and can use that to their advantage to always be relevant and influence their conference's decisions. They don't want a championship game because since them and Oklahoma would both be in the same division, one of them wouldn't play in the championship game and limit their chances of playing in a BCS bowl. But now, it makes it easy for both teams to make it to a BCS bowl (or playoff if that is what happens). The payouts to these games is nothing when it's shared among 12+ teams. It's all about TV exposure and when Texas isn't playing in a BCS bowl, it hurts their chances. Texas has only played in 4 BCS Bowls, while Oklahoma has played in 8 and only twice have they played in the BCS in the same year. The look at the Big 10 and see how they've had two teams play in the BCS every year since the 05-06 season. And the only reason the Big 10 expanded was to increase TV revenue for their Big 10 Network, something that wont' happen in the Big 12 with the Longhorn Network already established, preventing any conference network. Texas wants more viewers for the LHN and in order to do that they need to be making BCS bowls at a greater rate to gain exposure.

In fact, Texas' AD said this about the conference game:

Ten teams means no divisions, and no divisions means no conference championship game.

"We're OK with that," Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds said. "In fact, every year we've been in the Big 12 that we've had a vote about the championship game, we've voted against having it."

http://www.statesman.com/sports/coll...inglePage=true