I think 6+ wins saves his job. We were in a really big mess when he and Reggie took over. It is going to take more then two years to get this organization out of the hole they were in. Then comes competing for championships but first we must get back to respectability and that is done through culture change and continuity.
The question remains though. Is Dennis Allen a great coach?
Based on overwhelming empirical evidence, thus far he's fallen far short- to the point he's already fired the OC that he just hired last year.
Based on that- I'd say any criticism against DA is well deserved and should not be considered as "hate".
It is what it is.
If it were me, I'd given DA his walking papers and gone after an HC with much experience.
As it were they got rid of Knapp. Fair enough,
Now, hire Norv Turner if you can. We need some real experience and talent in the coaching pool.
Norv was no great shakes in Oakland in 2004-2005.
I would consider 7-8 wins a successful season.
Even if you don't approve of Allen, he has taken some strides to improve the football culture in Oakland. We are way down on penalties and that is huge. I saw way fewer time outs called to get a play in. I saw way less procedure penalties giving us third downs with impossible yardage. Save for a couple of incidents early in the season, there were fewer attempts to shoot ourselves in the foot with meltdowns of epic proportion.
What I also saw less of was competitive football. I saw a lot of confusion on defense, mostly secondary assignments. I saw extremely horrible offensive play calling all season long.
I saw a lot of injuries at the most inopportune times. I saw players being asked to change position, with one working out reasonably well. I saw the negative effect of an extremely shallow bench.
Most of all, I see management willing to stay the course with a few tweaks of course.
In general terms, if we can hang on to the positives and erase some more of the negative, we will surely be competitive next year. I'm not sure if I'm going to measure success in the terms of wins and losses but how tough we stand up to already competitive teams.
If you have spent the time to learn any physical skill, you know it is twice as hard to unlearn mistakes as it is to learn properly out of the gate. We were mired pretty deeply in bad habits, some natural, some born of lack of discipline and some dragged in on a bad reputation. Perfection comes at a price, a steep price in terms of this team.
It will take more time, less if we hit a jackpot on personnel. I'm hoping that McKenzie's eye for talent is not overrated. This would be a huge boost in shortening the process.
We have the foundation, now let's see if we have the perserverence to see it through.
Allen stays, and succeeds.....
Firing coaches every year or two seems to be working out really well. So, they should definitely keep that going.
There's a dire need at nearly every position on the field and there are 3 open coaching staff spots that need to be filled. Expecting this to be a competitive team next season is naive, no matter who is at the head coach position.
If it takes a player approximately 3 years to get truly comfortable in the league, and develop an identity, then Allen should be given the same oppurtunity. He inherited a mess last season, and this is truly his first chance to make an imprint on this team, albeit while still paying a premium on the previous regime's mistakes. Oakland must end the coaching carousel ride and establish continuity. If the Raiders show fight through every game, remain competitive next season, and buy into what coach Allen is preaching, his job should be safe.
Bill Walsh won 8 games his first two seasons, winning only 2 in 1979. I lived in the Bay Area at that time and you couldn't give 9er tickets away. There were many fans demanding his firing. How many of you would have been among them?
I'm not saying DA will be another Walsh. Maybe he will maybe he won't. Considering what he was handed I'm willing to stay off his back. If you need instant gratification go to a porn site.
This team is a mess. However this mess won 8 games last year. You would think a dramatic improvement by next year or move on. I say 9 wins saves his job. The bar should be set high! 9 wins is mediocre at best and if we can't accomplish that .... Well it's time to move on. Here is my biggest problem with Allen. He doesn't surround himself with great people. When I seen he hired Knapp, I shook my head and thought this year we will be offensively challenged. Unfortunately I was right.
That's why I like big name coaches. They have great coaches standing in line to work for them. I hear Mike Holmgren is available. He will instantly have one of the best coaching staffs around. Again you are only as good as your coaching staff!!!!!!k
No way we look as bad next year we will add some solid players and continue to eliminate the trash. We should be a 8 or 9 win team next season.
Good points but who was available at the time on such short notice? More to the point, who would have come here?
Originally Posted by dogdaddy
It goes a lot deeper than "Oh look, 8 wins, they must have been competent".
Originally Posted by dogdaddy
They only got 8 wins because early in the season DMC/Bush carried that team on their backs. Enter mid-season, DMC out of that equation and add Palmer (who just got off his couch watching the Jersey Shore), and you get a 1-5 finish.
That rushing attack also masked the ugly defense who allowed way too many scoring drives. Especially later in the games.
If anything, that 8-8 record was an overachievement, not an indicator of where the team was heading. Not that 8-8 is anything to be proud of.
Allen will need 7+ wins and a substantially improved unit - either offense or defense - to be validated as a good coaching hire.
Without a far stronger season, there's little to no hope of his 2014 return. He will enter 2013 with a stronger roster tailored to his systemic needs - if he can't succeed next year, or at least compete at a far higher level next year, he won't be asked to return in 2014.
I like him, but he'll need to do something for us next season. It's as simple as that.
7-9 he gets another year. Anything less we get a new coach.
let's see Tom Cable improved our team to8-8, and got fired. Hue Jackson finished 8-8 and was within a quarter of one game of getting us ito playoffs, and got fired. DA takes us from 8-8 to 4-12, and we are saying if he wins 1-3 games more next year and he stays. The only thing he showed me this year was he hired an oc, we already knew was horrible. I know RM may be reticent to fire him,as it may be a poor reflection on Rm. I'm not saying DA wont do better next year, but I wont be happy w/anything less than 9-7. Plus with Lovie Smith, Ken Whisenhunt, Andy Reid. and maybe Mike Holmgren, and Jon Gruden available, now would be the time to hire a new hc...do I expect us to....NOO. btw..I don't want Norv Turner as hc, but wouldn't mind him as oc, or qb coach.