You said SS is a defense first position and guys who give back runs with the glove shouldn't be there, regardless of how much they hit. By that line of thinking, Izturis and Hechavarria would be better shortstops than Young and Reyes, no? I'm trying to find where you draw the line here, but based on your Jeter stance (again, ONE OF THE BEST TO EVER PLAY THE POSITION) it can't be at those guys.
Originally Posted by Halladay
But Jeter did play SS, and he's had a tremendous career. I'm not understanding why he shouldn't have been playing SS when he did play SS and produced the kind of value that few who've ever walked this earth have.
Continually missing the point. Jeter and Young shouldn't have been playing SS to begin with. Thats where the problem lies. Had they been playing their proper positions, the conversation is completely different.
Being inferior to a once in a generation type of star like A-Rod ain't really a knock on anyone.
Neither were that good at a position that requires defense as it's a premium defensive position. And yes, Arod is without question the best SS of his era. Not even close. Pretty much hits the nail on the head with putting players in positions they should be playing rather than positions they've been stuck playing because of some ego by the player or manager or GM. Stick Jeter at another spot, where he should be, and things look a lot different. Still a great hitter, I'm not denying that.
If that was the case with either guy, then you'd have a point. But it's not, and it's not even close to being true. ****, Young had years where he was giving up ~20 runs in the field (according to UZR, which...meh) and still managed to put up a 4.5 win season on the strength of his bat.
More about compensating here.
Again, completely missing the point. If a guys defense is so bad that for every run he produces and his defense creates one for the opposition, how valuable is the guy really?
EXACTLY!!! Now take that advice and stop 'cherry-picking' defense. You're saying they shouldn't be SS's because they give back runs defensively, yet you're ignoring how many runs they produce over the average SS with the bat.
You can't cherry pick offense and defense.
Dunn was hilariously bad in LF with the Reds and still put up solid seasons there. But again, we're talking about the least important positions on the defensive spectrum there, while SS is at the other end. It's irrelevant.
It was to make a point that offense doesn't always compensate. Dunn is an extreme case but an example nonetheless.