So long Swish...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYY09

If you're curious enough you'll find it. I on the other hand will not take the time to do so, no offense.

---

Of course.

Of course it doesn't exist I mean.

Toronto never made a formal public offer on Halladay to Cashman and the only thing that has ever been discussed on the matter is out of Cashmans very own mouth that said they we never seriously engaged on Halladay.

Unless of course you stand by and back up your assertations with verifiable proof otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sauronthepower

I think slamming his personal integrity is a bit harsh, IMO.

As an addict, especially in the opiate as opposed to narcotic family, it's a sickness. I'm pretty sure he's miserable about ruining his sobriety but addicts often struggle with their moral code versus their physical (and yes, opiates are a physical need. Heroin in particular needs to be physically weaned with medically approved method one in order to prevent death of hardcore addicts who have replaced their bodies production of certain endorphins in a way that the narcotic family does not)

Now, I am not defending, as I stated earlier, Hamilton's problems. He is a definite risk. What he does bring to the table however is a verifiable work history and a potential to really capitalize on the stadiums offensive design flaws. I would certainly not feel good about the signing but it might be no more riskier then signing a mediocre Wright, a terrible Pavano, or a weak Swisher, all of whom had spotty to terrible WORK histories prior to being signed by Brian.

I do not disagree with you over the double standard ARod hate. He wants a little poon, hardly measures up to risking the lives of others.

---

Alcohol addiction is just as rough as heroin. Withdrawals from alcohol are at the top level or nasty, as I'm sure heroin is. So let's not give a pass to Hamilton, but throw Pineda under the bus.

BTW, What weak work history do you speak of regarding Swisher? He didn't get along with Ozzie? I'd imagine a very large portion of the population would think Ozzie is a moron.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sauronthepower

Of course.

Of course it doesn't exist I mean.

Toronto never made a formal public offer on Halladay to Cashman and the only thing that has ever been discussed on the matter is out of Cashmans very own mouth that said they we never seriously engaged on Halladay.

Unless of course you stand by and back up your assertations with verifiable proof otherwise.

---

How many trade offers are ever truly verifiable?

While there's no hard evidence that Toronto wanted to extract a king's ransom from the Yankees for Halladay, wouldn't you agree that teams generally don't like trading their franchise players to divisional rivals? Look at past history. How many big trades have occurred within the AL East? You might argue that Toronto's options were limited but they clearly got a nice haul from the Phillies in Drabek, D'Arnaud, and Taylor.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sauronthepower

Of course.

Of course it doesn't exist I mean.

Toronto never made a formal public offer on Halladay to Cashman and the only thing that has ever been discussed on the matter is out of Cashmans very own mouth that said they we never seriously engaged on Halladay.

Unless of course you stand by and back up your assertations with verifiable proof otherwise.

---

Whats your point?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYY09

Whats your point?

---

I think you can figure it out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rylinkus

Alcohol addiction is just as rough as heroin. Withdrawals from alcohol are at the top level or nasty, as I'm sure heroin is. So let's not give a pass to Hamilton, but throw Pineda under the bus.

BTW, What weak work history do you speak of regarding Swisher? He didn't get along with Ozzie? I'd imagine a very large portion of the population would think Ozzie is a moron.

---

Exactly my point. No one wants to touch Hamilton but then wants to exonerate Joba and Pineda as missteps.

Difference is that Hamiltons work histoy, you know the thing we're supposed to be paying him on, is much more impressive AND verifiable than either of the two aforementioned.

Btw.....alcohol is a severely damaging psychological addiction. Heroin withdrawal causes death. There is a difference. Methodone is necessary to wean a heroin addict off of the chemicals that the opiates replaced within the body's biochemistry. Heroin addicts cease producing certain endorphines because the drugs they voluntarily place into their body turn off the bodys natural production of these same chemicals. Alcohol does not do this. And.....either way....neither should be excused as justifiable so this arguements moot. I would say though that slamming the integrity of an addict is a bit harsh.

Getting back to Joba and Pineda, if we're going to slam Josh then we'd better be equally willing to slam those two as well. Let's not poo poo their poor decision making as a bad choice shall we?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by theslick1

While there's no hard evidence that Toronto wanted to extract a king's ransom from the Yankees for Halladay, wouldn't you agree that teams generally don't like trading their franchise players to divisional rivals? Look at past history. How many big trades have occurred within the AL East? You might argue that Toronto's options were limited but they clearly got a nice haul from the Phillies in Drabek, D'Arnaud, and Taylor.

---

If the Yankees had given up what was considered to be prime developmental talent at that point in Joba, Hughes, Betances, Brackman, Romine and Montero they still would be better off with the years they would've gotten out of Halladay then what they've received from those six "prospects" (excepting Hughes and Jabba) to this point.

Cashman's insistence that he knows how to run a youth developmental program has yielded us an oft injured Wang, a mediocre Gardener, a mediocre Hughes, a clown shoes regimen in Jabba, Pinedas bionic arm, Robertson, and Cano.

Once Cano's gone to FA that list is going to look awfully thin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rylinkus

Didn't we offer Montero for Lee? And Halladay? But he alone wasn't enough? And those moves also involved taking on money.

And I'd suggest it is hypocritical on some level to keep bringing up Pineda's DUI, while being so willing to take on a man drummed out of baseball for heroin use. You seem to blame Cash for Pineda's DUI, yet won't him to take on a man with known character flaws.

Honestly, I don't want another giant contract on an aging superstar at the moment. But if we do need to pay big money, I guess I'd rather hope we can find a way to resign Cano without it becoming insanely expensive. I'm sick of paying players for what they did on their prior team.

---

Don't worry. I have it on good authority that Hank will be taking over the negotiations of Cano's new contract. There's no way he will allow Cano to get more than 10 years 280 million. You're going to have to wake up pretty early in the morning to get one over old Hank. He's the shrewd one in the family.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sauronthepower

Getting back to Joba and Pineda, if we're going to slam Josh then we'd better be equally willing to slam those two as well. Let's not poo poo their poor decision making as a bad choice shall we?

---

I have openly slammed those 2. Any Yankee fan old enough to remember Leyritz should know damn well what can happen when you drink and drive. My point is, that you keep pointing out the DUI in regards to the Pineda trade. Were the DUI prior to the trade, I agree, Cashman could be looked upon as taking on someone with a questionable character. Given that it happened after, I think we need to give Cash a pass on that part of the argument.

All I'm saying is if you keep bringing up character as an argument against some guys, who happen to already be Yankees, I find it hard to advocate not signing Hamilton, who clearly has character flaws of his own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sauronthepower

Exactly my point. No one wants to touch Hamilton but then wants to exonerate Joba and Pineda as missteps.

Difference is that Hamiltons work histoy, you know the thing we're supposed to be paying him on, is much more impressive AND verifiable than either of the two aforementioned.

Btw.....alcohol is a severely damaging psychological addiction. Heroin withdrawal causes death. There is a difference. Methodone is necessary to wean a heroin addict off of the chemicals that the opiates replaced within the body's biochemistry. Heroin addicts cease producing certain endorphines because the drugs they voluntarily place into their body turn off the bodys natural production of these same chemicals. Alcohol does not do this. And.....either way....neither should be excused as justifiable so this arguements moot. I would say though that slamming the integrity of an addict is a bit harsh.

Getting back to Joba and Pineda, if we're going to slam Josh then we'd better be equally willing to slam those two as well. Let's not poo poo their poor decision making as a bad choice shall we?

---

You left out, yes of course heroin withdrawal can cause death and heroin in itself is horrlbe, but so can alcohol withdrawal.

Case: My dad(life long alcoholic who still lives in a sober home and drinks) got a nice settlement check from the state when he got hurt at work, blew it all on alcohol..had no money left, he started to have seizures, went to the hospital and was put into a medically induced coma so he wouldn't
die from the seizures caused by alcohol withdrawal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rylinkus

I have openly slammed those 2. Any Yankee fan old enough to remember Leyritz should know damn well what can happen when you drink and drive. My point is, that you keep pointing out the DUI in regards to the Pineda trade. Were the DUI prior to the trade, I agree, Cashman could be looked upon as taking on someone with a questionable character. Given that it happened after, I think we need to give Cash a pass on that part of the argument.

All I'm saying is if you keep bringing up character as an argument against some guys, who happen to already be Yankees, I find it hard to advocate not signing Hamilton, who clearly has character flaws of his own.

---

Let's be clear about this. I wasn't aiming that double standard comment at you.

I WAS addressing your post while aiming one at a couple of others who will blindly defend Cashman at the drop of a hat.

And I am well aware that you have been steadfast in your stance on these matters. While I can't blame Cashman for post trade DUI, I can blame him for acting like he knows how to build a prospect system. His results have been comical at best. Montero was not the first in a line of mistakes it was just one of many?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RCSowner

You left out, yes of course heroin withdrawal can cause death and heroin in itself is horrlbe, but so can alcohol withdrawal.

Case: My dad(life long alcoholic who still lives in a sober home and drinks) got a nice settlement check from the state when he got hurt at work, blew it all on alcohol..had no money left, he started to have seizures, went to the hospital and was put into a medically induced coma so he wouldn't
die from the seizures caused by alcohol withdrawal.

---

Sorry for your situation. The DT's are a b--ch.

My original point is beIng lost in the minutaeofthis so I'll state it once again.

Everyone is acting Leary (and somewhat rightfully so) of Hamiltons personal history while ignoring his work history but then those very same people (I'm not referring to you ry) turn around and preach to back off on Pineda and Joba as bad personal choices. The double standard is a joke IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sauronthepower

Let's be clear about this. I wasn't aiming that double standard comment at you.

I WAS addressing your post while aiming one at a couple of others who will blindly defend Cashman at the drop of a hat.

And I am well aware that you have been steadfast in your stance on these matters. While I can't blame Cashman for post trade DUI, I can blame him for acting like he knows how to build a prospect system. His results have been comical at best. Montero was not the first in a line of mistakes it was just one of many?

---

Fair enough.

And I certainly am not a massive fan of all of Cashman's moves either. And this offseason irks me as well.