Originally Posted by fanofclendennon
But, not signing Scott Hairston or Cody Ross this offseason isn't the tell tail sign of this team not having winning as the main goal (especially when both guys are asking for 3 years).
I agree though...they need to spend eventually and if they don't I will be pissed.
However, I just don't think this is the right time nor do I think the right players are out there for us to sign.
The 2014 offseason will in all likely hood be the offseason where we get an idea of what direction this team is heading in...and if that direction is a path toward long term competitiveness...spending will be a part of the equation...not for stop gaps like Ross or Hairston, but for players that can make a serious impact in the short term as well as the long term.
The only thing worse than not spending any money in free agency is spending money on the wrong players at the wrong time for the wrong deals.
During the 2014 offseason, their will be plenty of legitimate options out there. I'll make my conclusions then, but for now, I am happy with the young talent that has been acquired and is on the horizon.
This is a step in the right direction. Will they make the next step? I don't know...I can't answer that right now.
Yeah. Any moves they don't make this season isn't indicative of anything other than the fact that this season, plain and simple, isn't the time to spend money.
Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP
We won't know one way or the other until they are in a position where spending money makes sense.
But I'm still having a hard time wrapping my arms around the fact that in two successive seasons, we got rid of a batting title winner and a Cy Young Award winner. You can debate each of those moves individually on the micro level but you can't tell me that this team wouldn't be closer to a championship right now with RA Dickey and Jose Reyes still playing for us.
I'd also be lying to you if i said i wasn't excited at the idea that we now have d'Arnaud in our organization. But to draw an analogy, d'Arnaud is to catching what Reyes is to shortstop. The difference of course is that d'Arnaud comes much cheaper and we also got rid of another very expensive player to get him.
So that alone doesn't sit well in my stomach.
Still, it could work your way too. They could develop the kids and then bring in the expensive veterans to put us over the top.
But will they?
See my signature.
Well, as far as not bringing back a batting champion and Cy Young winner in back to back seasons...I think you absolutely have to separate those two instances.
Originally Posted by fanofclendennon
Sandy botched the Reyes situation. He should have either been signed long term or traded for prospects. I have no way of defending the idea of letting him walk for nothing. I think Sandy knows he messed that one up. I am not defending this either. Simply letting Reyes go and getting nothing significant in return was a huge mistake. It annoys me just to think about how the front office totally botched this situation. It is indeed frustrating.
The Dickey situation was completely different. We sold at the highest possible time on a guy whose value couldn't be higher. We also traded from a strength to get younger and fill a very scarce position as well. It made complete sense to take the course of action that we took.
But, the most factual thing I can say in all of this...in response to how we let these guys go, is very simple IMO: We won 77 games with our batting champion and we won 74 games with our Cy Young winner.
I don't think we would have let either of these guys go if we were close to the playoffs in either of these two seasons. When you aren't winning enough games to compete late in September, you need to either buy more talent or sell the talent to get younger and live to fight another day.
The Reyes debacle was just that...a debacle. The Dickey situation was handled correctly in the grand scheme of things. You must separate these two situations.
To be completely honest, I think that Sandy messed up the whole Reyes situation because he thought that we had a chance to compete with Reyes, and he even was considering signing Reyes long-term during the trade deadline when the Reyes rumors were swirling. I think Sandy may have simply changed his mind when the time came to pony up the money for Reyes. I'm not defending anyone here, but I think there are baseball reasons for why Reyes was not traded nor signed either...even if those baseball reasons were flawed.
I guess I just have a little more faith in the intentions of our front office, and specifically in Sandy Alderson than you do.
To get back on topic... Johan Santana is our #1.
I listened to a podcast with Toby Hyde where he talked about the Reyes situation. He did agree that it could have been handled better, but he also said that with Jose Reyes being injured for most of July and the fact that in 2009 he only played 36 games and in 2010 had a big down year that it is very likely teams were not interested in him at the deadline.
Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP
Then he also used that same scenario for the Mets during contract talks. He said that the Mets probably thought they could get him for 80 million dollars (they didn't want to go higher) and the Mets didn't think the Marlins would have pffered as much as they did. He was basing this off of no interests during the trade deadline. He also said with Reyes price the bidding was only between the Mets and Marlins and he thinks all other teams were scared off because of the 2009 injury, the 2010 down year, and the injury around the trade deadline in 2011.
SA rolled the dice on Reyes bit. Some fans predicted an aggressive market for him, but it really wasn't. The Marlins decided to go for broke, and even with a new stadium it was hard to predict their interest in Jose since they had HR at SS. Remove the Marlins from the picture and you are probably left with a scenario where yhe Mrta could have been competitive bidders. There were other factors that contributed to keeping Reyes -- such as trying to win games for ghe fan base that purchased season ticket packages. It was a calculated risk that didn't play itself out well.
Santana is #1. Does being #1 even matter? Teams rarely adjust yheir rotations to matchup their top pitchers anymore. Seaver vs. Carlton used to be a tradition you could count on 3 to 4 times a year. Nowadays, pitching matchups dont seem as relevant.
The feeling I got was the Mets were terrified that if a real offer was tendered to Reyes he might accept and then they'd have to pay him. So they never even made him an offer.
As for the roster and the Wilpons intentions, what you see is what you get. They're not making an effort and refuse to spend a cent. It's weird how instead of admitting the obvious some act like this situation is a mess of tea leaves they need to try to read.
The only pitcher who currently has the stuff to be a number 1 is Harvey. We'll see how he does in a larger sample size. The others can be solid or better if healthy. Considering how Santana and Gee ended the season that's a big if.
Originally Posted by Dugmet
He didn't roll the dice at all, he completely blew it, only one team needed to emerge to beat the Mets, that's not a strategy, that's blindly walking into an ambush.
A 12 year old could have seen the flaw in this, if you're not willing to offer a contract, then you're probably not going to resign the player.
The made sure they got DW because they had too, they would have had cred and no fan base for a decade otherwise. Jose was thrown on to the short term bonfire that kept the team in Coupon hands for another year.
That's what happened, there's no great strategy from SA, just short-termism and idiocy from all involved.
Yes. A calculated risk, meaning that he knew he stood a chance to lose Reyes. Do you think he did not? Alderson has been in professional baseball for about 30 years. Hard to imagine he did not know that. Therefore, it was a calculated risk.
Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly
You even used the word, "probable" as in probability. Meaning that there was a chance Reyes might stay. Good job on recognizing that. SA realized that keeping Reyes was risky, but he weighed the factors and took a calculated risk. Part of that was a willingness to accept losing Jose. That was a decision he made, and part of his calculation.
Harvey could be our best pitcher this yr, or Niese...... but Santana will start opening day if he's healthy.