Money Ball - What the Yankees are doing right

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Originally Posted by sauronthepower

Hughes
Chamberlain
Montero
Brackman
Betances
Banuelos
Kennedy
Romine

Just a small list of the guys that have been endlessly touted over the better part of a decade as being the face of the future for this franchise and by whom so much was invested or denied to protect according to this argument. And yet their end result has been anything but beneficial or even a vindication of the "baseball acumen" of the beloved ninja.

I find it interesting that aside from a lackadaisical, unfocussed, petulant, numbers-hanger, that the Yankee matrices of success under this arguement consist of a guy who pitched brilliantly for the better part of two seasons, went on extended medical vacation for the better part of two seasons and then has labored away in obscurity for the better part of two seasons in a meaningless role with a limited future.

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Fixed ;)

i am also agree The goal is clear and with the current scenario,our team is fragile but very good.i hope team played really well in upcoming season.

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Originally Posted by RCSowner

Fixed ;)

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Awesome.

I need a Bluetooth keyboard badly.

Auto correct is an unforgiving b&@ch.

;)

And.....for the record....I'm all in for giving Romine the job. It's the hype, history and hysterics of the previous seven entries into that list that leave me shaking my head again and again and again and again every year.

Why is everybody so happy that Hal is going to put an extra 50 million in his pocket?
As if this is some long term vision that will bring this team to another late nineties dynasty.
We don't have a farm system like the Rays or Texas or even KC.
In case you haven't noticed, the only thing we seem to be good at developing is pitchers who need surgery.
That great yankees system that gave us Jeter, Mo, Pettitte, Bernie, and Jorge was built by Stick Michael when George was banned from baseball. And the soul of that team was Derek Jeter.
We do not have a Derek Jeter in our system.
We don't even have any studs in Triple A banging on the door.
If that potentially wonderful crew down in Single A are ready in a couple of years, then maybe that will be the time to bring them all up and suffer through their growing pains.
Right now, all we are doing is spending the money on billionaire owners.
Well, it is their money.
That the fans gave them.

I frankly am impressed by the Yankees patience this off season. The one guy I would take a chance on is Sizemore, whereby we give him an above market 2013, in exchange for an option for a one or two year 2014 and 2015.

Here is the deal people are not seeing. This free agent class stinks. I don't like anyone. When you have that you get overpaid free agents. Look I thought Swisher was a nice player, but at 5 years 70 million, give me a break. Before he came to NY Ozzie couldn't trade him for a bucket of balls.

Do I know who the best players will be come 2015...not by a long shot. Baseball changes every year.

What I do know is that the Yankees are in a very dangerous spot. I saw this with the Dallas Cowboys in the late 90's. Never mind questioning my judgement to be a fan (something about loyalty) :). But what happened happens a lot to veteran dynasty teams...you try to hard to win one more. Dallas did that in getting Joey Galloway the mistake was obvious after like the second week of the season when Michael Irvin's football career ended.

The Yankees are an older team. They haver great players who when they were signed were great, but your paying for that now. Sure A-rod signing was a mistake today. But after the years he had going into 2007 he was a pure monster. After 2009, all was forgiven as he had a monster post season, in fact one of the most complete performances by a Yankee ever (law of averages said he was due).

The Payroll today has two problems, first there is a luxury cap consequence for the future by going over 189 million in 2014, second the Yankees have 25 million a year in A-rod, and I'm starting to get worried about CC and Tex. Simply put its best for the Yankees to hold tight.

Now this is not to say I would not be tooting a different horn if a young player like Mike Trout available, but that's not case. Simply put I would sleep a lot better (if I were a GM) after signing Mike Trout for 8 Years 220 million than signing, a mental cases like Greinke for 6 years 147 million or Hamilton 5 years 123 million. Frankly I am quite happy paying Pettite and Kuroda 27 million for 2013 versus paying Anibel Sanchez who has never won more than 13 games or pitched more than 200 innings in his life.

Yankees not making a push this year for these guys is a blessing in disguise. Those who complain about Hal Steinbrenner, I ask...so what would you do. Let say Hal broke the bank for Greinke and Hamilton....do you feel good about this team in 2013...would they be locks?

Instead the Yankees committed 5 years (total) for 50 million, 2 of those years Ichiro, and a year for Pettite, Kuroda and Mariano. Somehow I think the production will be just fine.

The Yankees also will get a late first round pick for losing Soriano and Swisher. Don't discount that. While the baseball draft is surely a crap shoot, getting three first round picks, may very well produce some nice trade chips that in three years could net Stephen Strasburg in 2015. Its about timing, and this years free agent class is not worth what it.

2014 is also not that promising, that is other than signing our own as Cano is the best player in that class. Yankees are smart to sit tight!

I agree with bobshirley except for the Sizemore part. From what I've read, he will miss at least the first half of 2013 after another surgery and he might end up missing more than that. He's probably going to have to take a 1 year minimium wage or minor league "prove it" deal to show he can stay healthy.

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Originally Posted by jango2000

Why is everybody so happy that Hal is going to put an extra 50 million in his pocket?
As if this is some long term vision that will bring this team to another late nineties dynasty.
We don't have a farm system like the Rays or Texas or even KC.
In case you haven't noticed, the only thing we seem to be good at developing is pitchers who need surgery.
That great yankees system that gave us Jeter, Mo, Pettitte, Bernie, and Jorge was built by Stick Michael when George was banned from baseball. And the soul of that team was Derek Jeter.
We do not have a Derek Jeter in our system.
We don't even have any studs in Triple A banging on the door.
If that potentially wonderful crew down in Single A are ready in a couple of years, then maybe that will be the time to bring them all up and suffer through their growing pains.
Right now, all we are doing is spending the money on billionaire owners.
Well, it is their money.
That the fans gave them.

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Agreed and excellent analysis.

Just don't expect to come off as too popular round here with that.

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Originally Posted by Bobshirleyrules

I frankly am impressed by the Yankees patience this off season. The one guy I would take a chance on is Sizemore, whereby we give him an above market 2013, in exchange for an option for a one or two year 2014 and 2015.

Here is the deal people are not seeing. This free agent class stinks. I don't like anyone. When you have that you get overpaid free agents. Look I thought Swisher was a nice player, but at 5 years 70 million, give me a break. Before he came to NY Ozzie couldn't trade him for a bucket of balls.

Do I know who the best players will be come 2015...not by a long shot. Baseball changes every year.

What I do know is that the Yankees are in a very dangerous spot. I saw this with the Dallas Cowboys in the late 90's. Never mind questioning my judgement to be a fan (something about loyalty) :). But what happened happens a lot to veteran dynasty teams...you try to hard to win one more. Dallas did that in getting Joey Galloway the mistake was obvious after like the second week of the season when Michael Irvin's football career ended.

The Yankees are an older team. They haver great players who when they were signed were great, but your paying for that now. Sure A-rod signing was a mistake today. But after the years he had going into 2007 he was a pure monster. After 2009, all was forgiven as he had a monster post season, in fact one of the most complete performances by a Yankee ever (law of averages said he was due).

The Payroll today has two problems, first there is a luxury cap consequence for the future by going over 189 million in 2014, second the Yankees have 25 million a year in A-rod, and I'm starting to get worried about CC and Tex. Simply put its best for the Yankees to hold tight.

Now this is not to say I would not be tooting a different horn if a young player like Mike Trout available, but that's not case. Simply put I would sleep a lot better (if I were a GM) after signing Mike Trout for 8 Years 220 million than signing, a mental cases like Greinke for 6 years 147 million or Hamilton 5 years 123 million. Frankly I am quite happy paying Pettite and Kuroda 27 million for 2013 versus paying Anibel Sanchez who has never won more than 13 games or pitched more than 200 innings in his life.

Yankees not making a push this year for these guys is a blessing in disguise. Those who complain about Hal Steinbrenner, I ask...so what would you do. Let say Hal broke the bank for Greinke and Hamilton....do you feel good about this team in 2013...would they be locks?

Instead the Yankees committed 5 years (total) for 50 million, 2 of those years Ichiro, and a year for Pettite, Kuroda and Mariano. Somehow I think the production will be just fine.

The Yankees also will get a late first round pick for losing Soriano and Swisher. Don't discount that. While the baseball draft is surely a crap shoot, getting three first round picks, may very well produce some nice trade chips that in three years could net Stephen Strasburg in 2015. Its about timing, and this years free agent class is not worth what it.

2014 is also not that promising, that is other than signing our own as Cano is the best player in that class. Yankees are smart to sit tight!

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Some of what you say is very true but some I think is not.

Grienke was an absolute no brainier because of his mental foibles. Way too much risk going forward with that.

Swisher was a 5 hr joke before coming here but has priced himself out of the market.

Hamilton however, at a four year deal might have been a great signing. Yes he has verifiable historic issues that might well impede his play in the same vein as Grienke but he also has monster potential in our stadium to singlehandedly turn around a limping offense. Cashman, IMO, took a greater risk trading, no let me reword that, frittering, away our single greatest offensive prospect in the better part of a decade for a petulant, broken joke of a pitcher.

Which is the greater sin: throwing oceans of money at a major league stud with personnel issues or pissing away a prize who you've been hoarding (and thereby passing up lucrative trade offers for) and developing only to squirrel him away for a guy with a history of arm issues who's piss drunk during his rehab.

So yes, the Yankees get a lot of blame for being in this situation because better long term franchise vision and planning wouldn't be scrambling to fill lineup vacancies with no capital to invest on them.

AJ at one year, making the same money as his positional predecessor would have been a great deal but we hemmed and hawed and opportunity passed us by in favor of an aging Youkilis. Hardly the common sense patience you describe above.

I want to see how the organization treats Cano's impending free agency when it comes to this newfound financial efficiency business model that Hal has 'decreed' (his very own words). Will you be satisfied to overpay and over commit to gaining nothing for the team because it's not like Cano is going to hit 30 more homers a season because he's getting paid double what he currently commands.

Paying for more ofthe same will not win us a title.

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Originally Posted by sauronthepower

Some of what you say is very true but some I think is not.

Grienke was an absolute no brainier because of his mental foibles. Way too much risk going forward with that.

Swisher was a 5 hr joke before coming here but has priced himself out of the market.

Hamilton however, at a four year deal might have been a great signing. Yes he has verifiable historic issues that might well impede his play in the same vein as Grienke but he also has monster potential in our stadium to singlehandedly turn around a limping offense. Cashman, IMO, took a greater risk trading, no let me reword that, frittering, away our single greatest offensive prospect in the better part of a decade for a petulant, broken joke of a pitcher.

Which is the greater sin: throwing oceans of money at a major league stud with personnel issues or pissing away a prize who you've been hoarding (and thereby passing up lucrative trade offers for) and developing only to squirrel him away for a guy with a history of arm issues who's piss drunk during his rehab.

So yes, the Yankees get a lot of blame for being in this situation because better long term franchise vision and planning wouldn't be scrambling to fill lineup vacancies with no capital to invest on them.

AJ at one year, making the same money as his positional predecessor would have been a great deal but we hemmed and hawed and opportunity passed us by in favor of an aging Youkilis. Hardly the common sense patience you describe above.

I want to see how the organization treats Cano's impending free agency when it comes to this newfound financial efficiency business model that Hal has 'decreed' (his very own words). Will you be satisfied to overpay and over commit to gaining nothing for the team because it's not like Cano is going to hit 30 more homers a season because he's getting paid double what he currently commands.

Paying for more ofthe same will not win us a title.

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Saur, Hamilton for 4 years wasn't realistic since he got 5/125 from the Angels. If the Yankees had given him that same deal, it would have cost them 5/162 or about 32M per year counting the 50% luxury tax and all this for a guy who has had injuries, substance abuse issues, and will be 36 when the contract ends. Also, Hamilton has a career .227 post-season average so no doubt he would have replaced Swisher or A-Rod as the target of fan frustration come October.

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Originally Posted by theslick1

Saur, Hamilton for 4 years wasn't realistic since he got 5/125 from the Angels. If the Yankees had given him that same deal, it would have cost them 5/162 or about 32M per year counting the 50% luxury tax and all this for a guy who has had injuries, substance abuse issues, and will be 36 when the contract ends. Also, Hamilton has a career .227 post-season average so no doubt he would have replaced Swisher or A-Rod as the target of fan frustration come October.

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This would have obviously been conditional on unloading one of Cano or Granderson.

Personally Cano's looming FA would be a bigg concern to me coupled with the inevitable loss of Granderson's power so I think the tax could've been circumvented.

As well, Pettites 12 mil, Mo's 10 mil, Kurodas and Hughes contract are all coming off of the books next year well within the tax deadline. Granted,those positions need to be filled but where are the Killer Bs ie Cashmans highly overhyped and over touted developmental program.

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Originally Posted by theslick1

Saur, Hamilton for 4 years wasn't realistic since he got 5/125 from the Angels. If the Yankees had given him that same deal, it would have cost them 5/162 or about 32M per year counting the 50% luxury tax and all this for a guy who has had injuries, substance abuse issues, and will be 36 when the contract ends. Also, Hamilton has a career .227 post-season average so no doubt he would have replaced Swisher or A-Rod as the target of fan frustration come October.

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Where does the 5/162 figure come from? Its impossible to predict how much a contract would cost unless we know how far the team goes over the luxury tax.

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Originally Posted by TallicaFan87

Where does the 5/162 figure come from? Its impossible to predict how much a contract would cost unless we know how far the team goes over the luxury tax.

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We're already over the luxury tax limit of 189M so I assumed that paying Hamilton 25M would just make us further over the limit.

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Originally Posted by sauronthepower

This would have obviously been conditional on unloading one of Cano or Granderson.

Personally Cano's looming FA would be a bigg concern to me coupled with the inevitable loss of Granderson's power so I think the tax could've been circumvented.

As well, Pettites 12 mil, Mo's 10 mil, Kurodas and Hughes contract are all coming off of the books next year well within the tax deadline. Granted,those positions need to be filled but where are the Killer Bs ie Cashmans highly overhyped and over touted developmental program.

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Granderson has become almost a dead pull hitter, atleast when swinging for the fences. I really don't see that power going anywhere. The problem I do see is his ever plummeting average.

Overall I'm not worried about the Yankees and their future. If they didn't go into an almost unprecedented slump they had a real shot at another world series. People seem to forget how good the pitching was in the postseason.

The team doesn't need to add pieces, they just need to perform even somewhat up to their potential to contend for a title.

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Originally Posted by LAcowBOMBER

Granderson has become almost a dead pull hitter, atleast when swinging for the fences. I really don't see that power going anywhere. The problem I do see is his ever plummeting average.

Overall I'm not worried about the Yankees and their future. If they didn't go into an almost unprecedented slump they had a real shot at another world series. People seem to forget how good the pitching was in the postseason.

The team doesn't need to add pieces, they just need to perform even somewhat up to their potential to contend for a title.

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This is not the first year or even set of years that they have underperformed offensively.

Their ability to move runners from first and second with minimal outs, play small ball, sacrifice in times of need, manufacture runs and/rallies, and build offensive momentum has been a compete and utter joke for the better part of a decade of October baseball.

Without Arods stellar 2009, there would be no championship and the post-dynasty streak would be ongoing.