Lackey was a slightly below average pitcher quality wise, and an above average pitcher quantity wise. Most Sox fans would not agree he was worth $16.5M that year, and if Sanchez's average over the last 3 years is $17.2M, what does that say about him? He's not an ace, nor even a #2 in the AL East:
Originally Posted by SirHizz
AS career slash vs his worst 4 teams:
Red Sox: .381/.458/.952 (24 PA)
Rangers: .333/.400/.533 (50 PA)
Blue Jays: .308/.377/.538 (77 PA)
Yankees: .350/.409/.475 (44 PA)
Guess he hates the American League. I hope he comes to the AL East, just not here.
How can a prediction be an absolute statement? Why the upset?
Well then, why don#t you throw out absolute statements? Sanchez will be overpaid if he gets (way) more than 17m per annually. But it's just your opinion, therefore your statement cannot be right.
I've presented much more data to support the opinion that we shouldn't have extended Ortiz then just a mere list of FG WAR $ list. Again some people accept FG WAR $ at face value, why can't I use it, or argue against it as it suits my opinion? Nobody here including you just argues facts in a purely absolute fashion.
Which one of the dozen types do you want me to research?
Bagwell368: "Let's look at the longer view on Ortiz - since 2008
See a trend? Giving him $30M for two years as some suggest with no strings because he "deserves" it is ridiculous and irresponsible."
Obviously - why bother since truth doesn't seem to be the main goal in this segment.
I don't go any further
Did I indicate I wouldn't use FG WAR $ in the case of AS? I said some people think it's overstated (like Grienke at $42.0M in 2009). I also pulled out the Lackey's 2010. That would be called undermining a stat with facts. Is that not allowed here anymore? I've beat up on batting average, FIP, Wins by a pitcher, outfield assists, importance of stolen bases - some of them long before they were popular positions in PSD.
Why does it count in Ortiz' case and not in Sanchez'? If any, it would be right to dismiss it in Papi's case since he was injured and missed the "WAR $" last year by only a small amount while only playing half the year. But I don't wanna go there again.
In the case of Ortiz, why are you cutting my list to one year? Are you trying to alter the meaning of my presented logic to make a specific (and biased) point? Oh the horror! Ortiz has made a habit of not making his FG $ WAR number since the end of 2007. In some cases by a great deal. I added in arguments for the natural decline for a hitter of his type and age; Ortiz's perceived change from teammate extraordinaire to selfish player. It's a recipe for a wasted contract. As far as 2012, I'm afraid that injury is no excuse. He didn't earn the FG WAR $, the reason matters not, but being an injury that cost his team so dearly should surprise nobody.
We will see, I doubt it.
If you offer Sanchez 5/90, he takes the deal in a heartbeat.
Yes you did, mea culpa.
I said he reached the 24.5m ONCE
Compared to the BRS staff last year? No doubt.
I am not Anibal's agent, I just find this numbers happen to be impressive.
Sorry, I'm from Missouri on this stuff. Words in the press not translated into reality have no value outside of a "what if". IMO Reyes contract is awful, and would be made much worse in Boston. I'd rather have Hamilton for $23M x 6 years any day then Reyes. Ugh. Mauer... no way anybody touches him w/o the Twins eating big money. As a home town hero, I don't think they are there yet. He can't catch more than 1/2 a season at a time - if that. Where else does he play? DH/1B? Disruptive. A high OBP/low SLG hitter for stupid money? That's like Helton after his back went. Too much bread and too much risk. There was talk about Helton being dealt here. Thank god that didn't happen.
Well, they were in on multiple guys with contracts 5 years or above. Joe Mauer, Jose Reyes, just to name a few. At some point they will realize that the market is too thin to play games.
Well.. Sanchez is a tick below a 4 WAR pitcher, and the AL doesn't seem to agree with him. Rubby? I think he'll be a killer back end bullpen guy. Barnes might top out as a #4. Webster and Owens would seem to have shots at being good #3's. This is why I thought it was so hysterical that so many here thought the Sox should deal Lester for a high ceiling shot in the dark.
I'd be more than happy if our farm produced steady 4 WAR pitchers. Not an unlikely ceiling (best case) for Webster. Barnes COULD be better, but is in A+ ball. Rubby?
Our pitching specs aren't projected to be aces...and the next plateau after "ace" is probably something in the 4-5 WAR range.
They can co-exist, but in years 3-5 if he starts falling off, what's the opportunity cost lost if we had just went and gotten one of the CWS SP's?
We are at that point again. I'd agree with that approach if we were a mid-market team, but as the Boston Red Sox, we shouldn't pass on opportunities just because "of the kids". I'd say Sanchez and our pitching prospects can co-exist.
No, I wouldn't tie up massive money in Felix at 29. I'm happy to see the Yanks tie up big in Cano.
When will we ever get a good/great pitcher again? As soon as someone hits the market, we'll have to pay north of 150m, that's obviously another inevitable risk. When Felix hits the FA market at 29, he'll have thrown a gazillion of Innings. Would you be ready to throw a stupid amount of cash at him? Each and every FA signing is risky, that's why I don't think Hamilton possesses more risk than i.e. Cano next year (Cano is gonna get more years than JH very easily and that alone is trouble)
Yes, as long as he's operational that's true.
Hey...if it doesn't work out with Sanchez, we could always trade him. Every contract can be traded, that's what I learned over the last 12-24 months.