How long will it take?

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Originally Posted by Opalmerr

This team just isn't clicking on all cylinders.

Doc got out coached by Carlisle for most the second half and OT tonight.

The chemistry just isn't right. I don't think adding Bradley will be the answer either. This team has a lot of weapons but Doc isn't playing to their strengths... when he plays them at all.

Wilcox was having a really solid game tonight with 10 pts and 6 boards in all of 15:46 of a possible 58 for his position. That's nuts.

Lee played 19:02 against a team that went small and torched the C's "bigger" lineup?

Sullinger only played 10:50 tonight?

Green played 26:34 but was buried on the bench towards the end of regulation and the first OT.

And against a team that went small.... Barbosa played ZERO minutes.

There's a lot of talent being wasted. Doc's got to get it figured out. Playing Jason Terry for 47:45 tonight ... ridiculous. 3-10 from the field, 1 reb and 3 assists... and he got torched on defense a number of times.

Bradley's return will only complicate things.... and if the C's don't get rolling that locker room could turn ugly with guys thinking they deserve more of a chance than they are getting.

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Yeah, im a little unsure myself. I find it puzzling the mins being shared. I would like to see Terry, Pierce, Garnett play less first half season. I would also like to see Garnett come out 8:00min mark first qrt.

I would like Rondo to score 20-24pts night, I would focus on building up players like J Green. He needs to play more. He must find a bigger role for this Celtics team to have a chance (both offense/ defense).

I would also like Brandon Bass to stay inside the paint. I know, it's not his game, but we need a wide body and a inside threat when Rondo gets into the lane. Teams are closing out on our shooters, It would keep team honest and make players make ajustments.

Barbosa needs more mins right now. He/ Barbosa is great to sub Rondo, Lee, Terry. The real problem is when Bradley comes back. I think the one problem is players not finding roles. Due to log jam at #2/ #3 spots, thus I would be shocked if a trade isn't made.

Celts are what they are, a .500 team, maybe minimally higher.

Two things missing.

1) Perimeter D. You don't have to be "big" if you can really pressure the perimeter. Lee, Terry and Barbosa have all been disappointments on defense.

2) Interior defense / rebounding. Lack of size / toughness is highlighted by poor perimeter defense. C's have no one to cover perimeter mistakes and the rotations are abysmal.


*** The hope is that Bradley will help with perimeter defense. I'm not sure he will be enough by himself to right this ship.

I'm going to add a third problem and that is Doc's coaching and game management. He has a lot of new toys but is having them play like they are the same (type of) players that he has had in the past. He has not changed to accomodate the new guys. He's really struggling and doing his worst job coaching since being in Boston.

"Avery, you're our only hope"

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Originally Posted by Opalmerr

Two things missing.

1) Perimeter D. You don't have to be "big" if you can really pressure the perimeter. Lee, Terry and Barbosa have all been disappointments on defense.

2) Interior defense / rebounding. Lack of size / toughness is highlighted by poor perimeter defense. C's have no one to cover perimeter mistakes and the rotations are abysmal.


*** The hope is that Bradley will help with perimeter defense. I'm not sure he will be enough by himself to right this ship.

I'm going to add a third problem and that is Doc's coaching and game management. He has a lot of new toys but is having them play like they are the same (type of) players that he has had in the past. He has not changed to accomodate the new guys. He's really struggling and doing his worst job coaching since being in Boston.

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Yes sir...

If the plan is to wait until Avery laces up the sneakers then I'll be patient...

Since this team is glaringly inconsistent, what would be the harm in bringing Melo up...??? Toss the boy in the water and see if he can tread some water... We can't be any worse off defensively in the paint anyway...

When KG and Bass leave for Wilcox and Sully, bring back KG and Melo at the end of qtrs...

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Originally Posted by Opalmerr

Two things missing.

1) Perimeter D. You don't have to be "big" if you can really pressure the perimeter. Lee, Terry and Barbosa have all been disappointments on defense.

2) Interior defense / rebounding. Lack of size / toughness is highlighted by poor perimeter defense. C's have no one to cover perimeter mistakes and the rotations are abysmal.


*** The hope is that Bradley will help with perimeter defense. I'm not sure he will be enough by himself to right this ship.

I'm going to add a third problem and that is Doc's coaching and game management. He has a lot of new toys but is having them play like they are the same (type of) players that he has had in the past. He has not changed to accomodate the new guys. He's really struggling and doing his worst job coaching since being in Boston.

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the perimeter D is fine. We know Rondo will turn up the D once the playoffs hit. Terry/Lee have been a very good defensive tandem 5th in opp FG% and 8th in opp PPG. Add in Avery to the guard rotation and we'll be at least top 3-5 at perimeter defensive team come playoff time.

Interior Defense and Doc's coaching problem. We suck at rebounding, but that doesn't matter. The correlation between rebounding and wins is much lower than opponent PPG and wins. The top 2 rebounding teams are the Pacers and Lakers. You know who the 3 worst rebounding teams are right now? The Celtics, Heat and Knicks. That's some good company to be in, if you're defense is good rebounding won't kill you. We were 1 game from the finals despite having the worst rebounding team. If we fix the interior D we will be fine, make them miss more shots and the rebounds will come


Doc's coaching and rotations IS the #2 problem.

m

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Originally Posted by Forever35

Yes sir...

If the plan is to wait until Avery laces up the sneakers then I'll be patient...

Since this team is glaringly inconsistent, what would be the harm in bringing Melo up...??? Toss the boy in the water and see if he can tread some water... We can't be any worse off defensively in the paint anyway...

When KG and Bass leave for Wilcox and Sully, bring back KG and Melo at the end of qtrs...

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I agree. Might as well give Melo a few minutes to see where he is in the process. The one thing he does fairly well is block shots. He might be able to cover some of the perimeter lapses that are breaking down the defense, or not... but no one else aside from Garnett has proven they can either.

This team has no chance of making NBA Finals as constructed. A trade/ or trades are needed unless your goal is a first/ second round playoff exit, period.

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Originally Posted by Opalmerr

m

I agree. Might as well give Melo a few minutes to see where he is in the process. The one thing he does fairly well is block shots. He might be able to cover some of the perimeter lapses that are breaking down the defense, or not... but no one else aside from Garnett has proven they can either.

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If your giving Melo mins you have no shot this year, none! You then trade PP/ KG/ JT right away and rebuild.

I am unsure if Fab can play in the NBA. I do know he cannot play right now. No way he 's ready for NBA action.

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Originally Posted by Bird Fan

If your giving Melo mins you have no shot this year, none! You then trade PP/ KG/ JT right away and rebuild.

I am unsure if Fab can play in the NBA. I do know he cannot play right now. No way he 's ready for NBA action.

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Fab is a project. Betting on him being as good in his way as Steemer? No, I'll take the under.

They need a real big to compete, but the cost will hurt the team down the line.

I want them to win another title, but it won't be with this core. The ship has sailed. Even if they do snag a killer big, it's back to 2-3% shot for the title - this year only. It's not enough. If we have to cough up Bradley, and picks to go with Bass etc. then we're just undermining future years. Undermining the future for a meager one year shot? It's just wrong.

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Originally Posted by bagwell368

Fab is a project. Betting on him being as good in his way as Steemer? No, I'll take the under.

They need a real big to compete, but the cost will hurt the team down the line.

I want them to win another title, but it won't be with this core. The ship has sailed. Even if they do snag a killer big, it's back to 2-3% shot for the title - this year only. It's not enough. If we have to cough up Bradley, and picks to go with Bass etc. then we're just undermining future years. Undermining the future for a meager one year shot? It's just wrong.

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I agree completly.

The chances of winning with this Celtics Team is 0%. If the Celtics add Gortat(type player) the chances are 2%.

You don't want to give up Bradley, and im not sure if Boston has anything to offer (Maybe Bass/ Lee/ Melo).

Even still theres not much that will not keep the Miami Heat from beating us like a drum!

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Originally Posted by Bird Fan

If your giving Melo mins you have no shot this year, none! You then trade PP/ KG/ JT right away and rebuild.

I am unsure if Fab can play in the NBA. I do know he cannot play right now. No way he 's ready for NBA action.

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Disagree.

There is no harm in giving Melo a few minutes to see where he stands in the development process... which is what I advocated.

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Originally Posted by Opalmerr

Disagree.

There is no harm in giving Melo a few minutes to see where he stands in the development process... which is what I advocated.

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Yes there is harm. First, this team has chemistry issues already. We can see his development where he belongs, which right now where he is - D- League.
Which he needs a lot of DEVELOPMENT.

The guy can't run basic side out sets right now. Which is awful for anyone playing D-3 Basketball or higher should know. Missing switch outs on every screen on preseason Celtics Practice. I could keep listing but my post is long enough/ he's not even CLOSE to NBA ready.

Also your saying, we have no shot. Your telling your TEAM and EVERY other NBA team, this is what Celtics have. Good Luck......

We'll just have to disagree.

I can see no harm whatsoever in playing Melo a few minutes to test the waters. It's going to have to occur at some point in time, why not now? There is free movement for him between Boston and Maine. Quite frankly, from a business / investment standpoint, the Celtics would be and are remiss in not taking full advantage of this. But short of a mandate to Doc from DA to play him you won't need to worry about it happening soon or on a regular basis.

You are worried about what others might think? Seriously? It's not exactly a secret the Celtics aren't very good at the 4 or 5 spots. The Celtics KNOW they are not good at rebounding - they talk about it all the time, don't they? Doc called them "soft" in reference to defending the paint / rim and rebounding. Everyone openly talks about the need to bring in another big - some of the veterans reportedly lobbied DA to bring in Martin. I hate stating the obvious, but this part of your position is really quite weak. Just saying...

But Melo will fail in the NBA now which can only damage his trade value and perhaps his self confidence.

Maybe later on if the season is really lost and he's more prepared it could work, but, I doubt the feedback or value added will be worth the effort - until the Coaches that understand him agree he's ready for the shot.