Saints Defense

Making a thread just for Saints defense discussion. Its our missing piece to getting another Superbowl.

I want to be on record about my 4-4 or 8 in da box same thing. :D

Hey Spags can/will run whatever he wants but imo if the Strength of our Defense is LBs now then I feel we should maximize that.

It's easy to see on paper and I saw signs in the Cards game that our most talented defenders now are all LBs and Dline.

Case and Point.

Already we are having CB injury problems hey whatevers its pretty much par for the course except maybe 09 we stayed relatively healthy there at right time.

Spags said not me its becoming a concern. So play to your strengths given this teams past its safe bet we will be hurting at CB all season its started already and we haven't even played any reg season games.

The difference in running a 4-4 now vs what we did at times last season is our LBs are better and I believe Spags is way more creative than GW.

4-4 is obviously a solid run formation BUT its flexible and can disguise the blitzes and packages very well.

What have we noticed? pressure on the QB is our big weakness in recent years! Also that our secondary has got torched by the pass.

So now what we are gonna try to pull CBs out our *** or do we build on our new strength and up the QB pressure which in turn does what???

Helps our CB out in coverage WOW what a concept!

The flexibility of this formation allows for camouflaging our blitz and for anyone not keeping up we can do nickel and dime packages out of 4-4 alignment. Putting personnel in run stop position and pass position
"at the same damn time" (for my hip hop people).

Again Spags has the smarts to run this better and we can make Harper argueably our worst coverage defender into a strength when he is in there instead of a target.

WHO DATs it helps us get our core strength on the field, it will make us better at run stopping, and with our current personnel it gives us our best option to play the pass.

I've made my case for what I think we should do.

I hope as the season goes on we can further discuss Saints defense and any defense ideas in this thread.

As we all know if our defense works with our Offense we can hoist that trophy again.

Oh 12 we got run game! but Oh 12 defense is what we need to get us to playing for that trophy in the Dome.

-Football 101-

1.) All Defensive Coordinators wants to get pressure on the QB without Blitzing! The only reason a defense blitz is due to the lack of consistant pressure they are getting from its "Front 4 DLine"!

2.) With The Saints high Fuel Offense putting up +35 pts per game, why should the Saints focus on stopping the run on defense when the opposing team will be playing from behind and will be forced into throwing the ball a lot, which last I've checked it's called a Passing Game!

3.) An opposing team trying to run the ball to keep Drew Brees off the field last for only so long, eventually the Saints will get the ball and with our 'ball controlled offense' will cause for them to get out of rhythm in the Dome and cause turn overs, which Drew will attack the seam on a play action. Guess what? Saints up by 7

4.) whatever defense you are running on XBox, that schit dont work in real life!

5.) The NFL is a passing league! You can't play 8 men in the box! You can't even let that 8 Man in The Box be your "Base formation"!

6.) Spags will put pressure with his Front 4! IF Spags can establish that pressure with only his DLine, it's ADVANTAGE New Orleans Saints!

7.) Again.... It's an Advantage to the Saints if we DON'T Blitz, but still get pressure with only our front 4/DLine!

8.) Spags will play Zone on the back end of our defense by dropping back 8 defenders in coverage, with the offense only sending out 5-6WR's for the QB to throw to and forcing the QB to find the HOLE in the Zone fast enough before Spags 4 DLine Pass Rushers get to him within 3secs!

9.) To Be Continued later! But for now...

Under..... Stop it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIGBREED

-Football 101-

1.) All Defensive Coordinators wants to get pressure on the QB without Blitzing! The only reason a defense blitz is due to the lack of consistant pressure they are getting from its "Front 4 DLine"!

2.) With The Saints high Fuel Offense putting up +35 pts per game, why should the Saints focus on stopping the run on defense when the opposing team will be playing from behind and will be forced into throwing the ball a lot, which last I've checked it's called a Passing Game!

3.) An opposing team trying to run the ball to keep Drew Brees off the field last for only so long, eventually the Saints will get the ball and with our 'ball controlled offense' will cause for them to get out of rhythm in the Dome and cause turn overs, which Drew will attack the seam on a play action. Guess what? Saints up by 7

4.) whatever defense you are running on XBox, that schit dont work in real life!

5.) The NFL is a passing league! You can't play 8 men in the box! You can't even let that 8 Man in The Box be your "Base formation"!

6.) Spags will put pressure with his Front 4! IF Spags can establish that pressure with only his DLine, it's ADVANTAGE New Orleans Saints!

7.) Again.... It's an Advantage to the Saints if we DON'T Blitz, but still get pressure with only our front 4/DLine!

8.) Spags will play Zone on the back end of our defense by dropping back 8 defenders in coverage, with the offense only sending out 5-6WR's for the QB to throw to and forcing the QB to find the HOLE in the Zone fast enough before Spags 4 DLine Pass Rushers get to him within 3secs!

9.) To Be Continued later! But for now...

Under..... Stop it!

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Interesting idea to talk about, Under, but I have to agree with BB here. I'm on the same page with everything he says, especially what I bolded. The league is trending to the pass. I will say this, though. Teams used this defense against the Tim Tebow led Broncos last year. Not gonna cut it for the most part though, unless you have the craziest freak athlete who can play Linebacker and Safety without losing anything in the transition, unfortunately I have yet to see one of those who can do that at the NFL level. You can get away with the 4-4 as a base defense in college (against the option) or high school ball, but I just don't see it in the pros. Teams will take advantage. Malcolm Jenkins (in his interception play against the Cards) had snuck up near the line and then fell back into zone coverage to make the pick. The QB (Kolb) didn't see him, so that sort of incorporates a little of what you're trying to say. If you try to sit 4 true linebackers on the field and take away a coverman, though, teams are going to kill you in the passing game, especially in play action

Food for thought or further comment on our Defense.

If we see a repeat of last season where the front 4 don't get adequate pressure, then what?

How will we create pressure?

Our CBs are typically depleted and all signs point to that being the case again this season thus far. There is a reason why every draft we are going after CBs.

How will we cover? How do we help a weak secondary?

I think we do so by creating pressure and LB is our deepest and strongest position. I believe we will have to lean on them to be successfull.

Whats the difference in a LB getting burned for a TD and a DB geting burned for a TD?

Of course we'd rather get pressure with just 4 lineman. Thats ideal. But when is the last time we were able to do it.

Again the 4-4 is flexible blitzing coverage and run stopping all in one.

Anyway this will be continued as season goes on but I think it will become more and more evident as we progress what works best for us.

GW isnt that stupid he knew to take Harper out of coverage and to utilize varying Blitz packages to try to use pressure to help our secondary.
He just 1. didnt have the LBs we have now and 2. didnt have the creativeness it takes to keep Offenses guessing.

Spags will build on this and make it better this season.

Jenkins will have a monster year due to the play of our best defenders The LBs and DLine!

We don't want to be vulnerable to the pass but I gurantee you we don't want to become vulnerable to the run most.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Underdogz∞

Food for thought or further comment on our Defense.

If we see a repeat of last season where the front 4 don't get adequate pressure, then what?

How will we create pressure?

Our CBs are typically depleted and all signs point to that being the case again this season thus far. There is a reason why every draft we are going after CBs.

How will we cover? How do we help a weak secondary?

I think we do so by creating pressure and LB is our deepest and strongest position. I believe we will have to lean on them to be successfull.

Whats the difference in a LB getting burned for a TD and a DB geting burned for a TD?

Of course we'd rather get pressure with just 4 lineman. Thats ideal. But when is the last time we were able to do it.

Again the 4-4 is flexible blitzing coverage and run stopping all in one.

Anyway this will be continued as season goes on but I think it will become more and more evident as we progress what works best for us.

GW isnt that stupid he knew to take Harper out of coverage and to utilize varying Blitz packages to try to use pressure to help our secondary.
He just 1. didnt have the LBs we have now and 2. didnt have the creativeness it takes to keep Offenses guessing.

Spags will build on this and make it better this season.

Jenkins will have a monster year due to the play of our best defenders The LBs and DLine!

We don't want to be vulnerable to the pass but I gurantee you we don't want to become vulnerable to the run most.

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Under you're wrong and that's putting it nicely!

First of all our personnel don't even fit for a blitzing scheme and secondly, our Dline underachieve due to the lack of Coaching, and that's why Spags brought in a "DLine Coaching God" into camp just for a few weeks and we saw improvements! Didn't you?
STOP with the damn panicking! Our defense will be fine, it can't be worsted then last year, with GW calling blitzes and not having the personnel in his starting defensive lineup and nowhere on the team.

These are the players you'll need for your scheme
DLine:
- needs a agile/quick limble 6'3 - 6'6 (265lbs max) with a Motor
1.)Will Smith 6'3 280lbs is built for a standard LDE in the 4/3
2.) Cam Jordan 6'4 287lbs is your standard RDE in a 4/3 to stuff the run or a 3/4 tackle
* neither are the typical standard Pass Rushers like J. Kearse, osi, Tuck, JPP, Ware, Haley, Doleman, Strahan

LB:
-also need a relentless Motor; with a quick shuttle and a 4.45 in speed! 6'0 to 6'3 239lbs max
1.)Shanle is a thumper against the run only; no speed/lateral agility!
2.) Lofton is a standard 4/3 MLB down hill thumper!
3.)Harwthorn is a thumper with zone cover skills; lacks strength

CB:
-you'll need physical lock down Corners like Mel Blount, Deion Sander! Your Corners have to be able to cover on a island by themselves with no help over top; safety has to be Ed Reed or Ronnie Lott or Rod Woodson! But Tge NFL today takes away the physicality of those guys! #Penalties
*for your 4-4 scheme, the CB has to be your strength of your defense! Got it?

We just draft about 3 zone covering DB in the pass two drafts!

^my phone battery is low, so I'll break CB down later!


Our personnel fits for a 4-3 zone dude! Anyway, give me 1 Team in the NFL that runs this 4-4 scheme. Hell, name some in the SEC? Your 4-4 scheme has 3 DB's in the secondary! Man... They gon laugh your azz right out the interview room, if you would apply for their DC job!
•Over 95% of Football in America, high school to Pro's are running the Spread Offense...and you're trying to pack it in on defense? Wow....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Underdogz∞

Food for thought or further comment on our Defense.

If we see a repeat of last season where the front 4 don't get adequate pressure, then what?

How will we create pressure?

Our CBs are typically depleted and all signs point to that being the case again this season thus far. There is a reason why every draft we are going after CBs.

How will we cover? How do we help a weak secondary?

I think we do so by creating pressure and LB is our deepest and strongest position. I believe we will have to lean on them to be successfull.

Whats the difference in a LB getting burned for a TD and a DB geting burned for a TD?

Of course we'd rather get pressure with just 4 lineman. Thats ideal. But when is the last time we were able to do it.

Again the 4-4 is flexible blitzing coverage and run stopping all in one.

Anyway this will be continued as season goes on but I think it will become more and more evident as we progress what works best for us.

GW isnt that stupid he knew to take Harper out of coverage and to utilize varying Blitz packages to try to use pressure to help our secondary.
He just 1. didnt have the LBs we have now and 2. didnt have the creativeness it takes to keep Offenses guessing.

Spags will build on this and make it better this season.

Jenkins will have a monster year due to the play of our best defenders The LBs and DLine!

We don't want to be vulnerable to the pass but I gurantee you we don't want to become vulnerable to the run most.

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The difference is that a LB is going to get burned for a long TD a lot more often than one of our Defensive Backs. You're right in the sense that we'd stop the run with a 4-4 defense. Mostly, though, thats because our opponents would shift primarily to the passing game in that situation. It'd basically be teams bringing in a bunch of WR's on every play to try and give us matchup problems against our heavy run personnel and we'd just see a ton of quick slants, quick outs, and other 3-step drop passes that give opposing WR's the chance to run past our guys with the ball in their hands. The traditional West Coast offense would be lethal and we'd have to end up with the nickel as our base defense in reality because we'd have to defend the pass so much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Underdogz∞

Food for thought or further comment on our Defense.

If we see a repeat of last season where the front 4 don't get adequate pressure, then what?

How will we create pressure?

Our CBs are typically depleted and all signs point to that being the case again this season thus far. There is a reason why every draft we are going after CBs.

How will we cover? How do we help a weak secondary?

I think we do so by creating pressure and LB is our deepest and strongest position. I believe we will have to lean on them to be successfull.

Whats the difference in a LB getting burned for a TD and a DB geting burned for a TD?

Of course we'd rather get pressure with just 4 lineman. Thats ideal. But when is the last time we were able to do it.

Again the 4-4 is flexible blitzing coverage and run stopping all in one.

Anyway this will be continued as season goes on but I think it will become more and more evident as we progress what works best for us.

GW isnt that stupid he knew to take Harper out of coverage and to utilize varying Blitz packages to try to use pressure to help our secondary.
He just 1. didnt have the LBs we have now and 2. didnt have the creativeness it takes to keep Offenses guessing.

Spags will build on this and make it better this season.

Jenkins will have a monster year due to the play of our best defenders The LBs and DLine!

We don't want to be vulnerable to the pass but I gurantee you we don't want to become vulnerable to the run most.

---

Not to mention that we're not trying to get a different type of player burned on long TD passes, we're trying to prevent those long TD passes.

^ Yep, what Neo just said!

#Ditto

BB, you know you're enjoying talking about Defense! :D

And its good stuff too. Im enjoying it!

We need to discuss our defense in here more especially since if we get this defense rolling it will be 09 all over again. WHO DAT!

Obviously you and Neo are correct in what you're saying and its more likely to happen since thats pretty much the way a lot of NFL defenses work these days. The stuff you two are saying is par for the course its standard.

And teams likely go down fighting with those schemes.

However, guys there are some valid points to what I am saying.

Harper is best at blitzing in our defense and being a disruptive force along the line he aint no cover guy. He is a tackler a physical old school SS tackling machine.

Martez Wilson getting on field blitzing off the edge and yes dropping in coverage using that speed.

Lofton roaming that middle knocking heads off especially if he blitzes he is no cover guy.

Hawthorne he is no cover guy.

Gallette is no cover guy.

Will Smith bull rusher

Cam Jordan to be determined but if he lost weight who knows he and Martez both could be our best speed rushers.

Our best cover guys are Jenkins, Greer, PRob, and JPatrick. They can hold their own one on one cause they can two they will have to be manned up anyway and three the pressure of the front 8 will work again obviously ideally we want 4 to get pressure but if they dont and they likely won't we do have serious serious pressure creating players at our second level now and Spags will send those guys as well as drop em in coverage in middle thats how you keep em guessing.

They wont have time to go deep on us and when they go back shoulder or underneath to beat our pressure our man guys Jenkins will be waiting. INTs takeaways all day long.

The 8 in da box look will allow for nickle and dime as well with our best cover guys too subbed in (Jenkins, Greer, PRob, and JPatrick). But it still puts them in a run stopping position not to mention a confusing one for the opposition they won't be sure who is blitzing who is going in coverage.

Im not panicking Im just discussing the idea of using personnel to max their strengths within our defense as a team and how we do that.

Just talking football strategies. I really do think Spags is gonna end up using personnel like Im saying although we may never call it a 4-4 but thats what we will shift in and out of and its smart to do that. The art of disception and it will allow Jenkins to have a field day book it.

Mainly tho It will be the pressure and confusion caused by not just the front 4 but the front 8 that will elevate this defense.

Don't get hung up on it always being 4 true LBs Harper is going to walk up in that box and theres nothing wrong with that thats his strength.

The strength of our Defense all on field at same time guys will give these teams headaches.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by neovenator250

Not to mention that we're not trying to get a different type of player burned on long TD passes, we're trying to prevent those long TD passes.

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Our best option at preventing those passes are with pressure from two levels. The front 8. Keepn in mind pressure isnt always a blitz the confusing look makes the line and QB hesistant which buys time for pressure to build or create a sack and even tho our DBs may be burnt by 5 yards deep the ball will never make it there.

If it dont work at least we'd have the #1 run defense with the #31 Pass defense :laugh2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Underdogz∞

Our best option at preventing those passes are with pressure from two levels. The front 8. Keepn in mind pressure isnt always a blitz the confusing look makes the line and QB hesistant which buys time for pressure to build or create a sack and even tho our DBs may be burnt by 5 yards deep the ball will never make it there.

If it dont work at least we'd have the #1 run defense with the #31 Pass defense laugh2:

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And that there ^ in Bold, is the reason I like your Lil crazy azz! Dude in Wrong, you'll be seriously funny! Be cool my dude


Oh...one more thing
This entire season of the Saints, take notice of Drew Brees pre-snap reads of the defense. Drew Brees is pointing out the Mike/MLB first (by Drew indentifying the Mike/MLB, it tells the Oline who to block in their assignments, no matter what scheme the defense is in) and then he'll shift the OLine blocking coverage because he has pickup a players body language if he's blitzing or not! *In that 4-4 scheme or any type of scheme, a seasoned vet will pickup who's blitzing from his pre-snap reads! {ALL Blitzers gives off a signal that indicates if he's coming, because he's so excited they called his blitz package which will call for him being over zellas!} Now it's upto the Oline and WR's to be on the same page with Drew on what they are seeing! And unless we're playing rookies, that scheme won't work. Hell even Tebow sorry tail beat that type of scheme against Pittsburg in the playoffs!
IT WON'T WORK!

FYI:
1.) "A Screen" will make a blitzing defense look stupid!

2.) "Max Protection" is the only thing a offense have to contain a front 4 that's in beast mode!
(and that's Advantage Defense)

ps...
You got me......I love talking defenses!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIGBREED

And that there ^ in Bold, is the reason I like your Lil crazy azz! Dude in Wrong, you'll be seriously funny! Be cool my dude


Oh...one more thing
This entire season of the Saints, take notice of Drew Brees pre-snap reads of the defense. Drew Brees is pointing out the Mike/MLB first and then hell sift the OLine blocking coverage because he has pickup a players body language if he's blitzing or not! *In that 4-4 scheme or any type of scheme, a seasoned vet will pickup who's blitzing from his pre-snap reads! Now it's upto the Oline and WR's to be on the same page with Drew on what they are seeing! And unless we're playing rookies, that scheme won't work. Hell even Tebow sorry tail beat that type of scheme against Pittsburg in the playoffs!
IT WON'T WORK!

FYI:
1.) "A Screen" will make a blitzing defense look stupid!

2.) "Max Protection" is the only thing a offense have to contain a front 4 that's in beast mode!
(and that's Advantage Defense)

ps...
You got me......I love talking defenses!

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One of my best friends will tell you that I call the Screen the best play in Football. Its just beautiful when the blockers gracefully slide out there with the back behind them Defense running full speed ears pinned back then the ball slowly floats by them :laugh2: love that play.

Anyway I hope our front 4 is enough to get adeqaute pressure because if our DBs are injured like they usually are then we will NEED that pressure to help them out. Thats why Im pushin 8 in da box 4-4 :D

But anyway Im done on the 4-4 for now. But the idea will come up again later in season I bet money on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Underdogz∞

One of my best friends will tell you that I call the Screen the best play in Football. Its just beautiful when the blockers gracefully slide out there with the back behind them Defense running full speed ears pinned back then the ball slowly floats by them :laugh2: love that play.

Anyway I hope our front 4 is enough to get adeqaute pressure because if our DBs are injured like they usually are then we will NEED that pressure to help them out. Thats why Im pushin 8 in da box 4-4 :D

But anyway Im done on the 4-4 for now. But the idea will come up again later in season I bet money on that.

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Noooooooooooooooooo!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIGBREED

Noooooooooooooooooo!

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Sometimes I think the way I talk confuses people so lets try this.

http://www.neworleanssaints.com/news...4-ef7002e7e8d3

From Malcolm Jenkins

"There’s a lot on me and Roman to kind of have eyes on the quarterback and play left-right so we can both be in the BOX and in the backfield. I think it brings some challenging things to quarterbacks as far as figuring out who’s coming."

"In the last couple of years, we preached to have our safeties back deep. I think we started off at 20 yards just so we could play downhill. A lot of times, if the ball got to me it was a bad thing. This year, we’re playing a lot closer to the line of scrimmage. Like I said, Roman (Harper) and I are basically playing the same position. We could play left or right, so we could both be down within linebacker depth. If they continue to go left-right, you’ll continue to see me closer to the line of scrimmage."

"He does have a lot of pressure coming from a lot of different places and he preaches playing fast and playing downhill. So you’ll still see the same aggressive style of play with everyone swarming and everybody getting to the ball and different blitzes with everyone coming from different place"

Ok so Harper stepping up is better than Jenkins stepping up but Spags knows this. But also ...........Spags knows

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf...fense_sho.html

"He said Spagnuolo has done a great job of disguising his defenses, even when specialists like Wilson or pass rusher Junior Galette rotate into the lineup."

"Under Williams, Roman Harper blitzed about 30 percent of the time, which is a lot for a safety. Chances are, he still will blitz often because it's such a strength of his, but not as much."

"He thinks free safety Malcolm Jenkins, especially, could be the biggest beneficiary of the switch"

"Throughout summer practices, the Saints have often used four defensive ends on the field"

Again Ideal situation get pressure with just 4.

Real life if you want to improve you have to think outside of da box no pun intended.

You have to show run defense and blitz package dropping a Dline guy blitzing a Roman Harper or dropping a Martez or blitzing him.

I have always been a huge fan of Spags.Really rooted for his success in St. louie and am really happy to have him here.It may take a few games but if that D comes together man look the frig out.Can I get a WHO DAT!!!!!!! Who DAT biatchezzzz