I have met some former major leaguers from the 1950's via my grandparents, and they are all disgusted by the short-cuts that the modern players have gotten to make millions and achieve immortal status. In their eyes, the best baseball players that should be immortalized in the Hall of Fame are the ones that didn't have to take steroids to justify demanding a multi-million-dollar contract via an agent. Statistics define the unique greatness of players in baseball...but Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc wrecked it for all of history.
So...HELL NO! Bonds was a great player when he came into the pros, but he messed up by allowing chemicals to compensate for the natural decline of his human ability. The human experience is what creates the magic in sports, but when pharmaceuticals are used to make it essentially a game of robots, then it is time scrap the whole game altogether...because it is no longer baseball as it has been for over 100 years.
I hope and pray that he doesn't get elected to the Hall of Fame.
I remember growing up, watching Dodger players like Kenny Landreaux, Mike Marshall, Chris Brock, Sid Bream. Maybe they should of cheated and used steroids to become better players. But they didn't.
Barry Bonds is a cheater. And whats sad about him, he would of made the HOF without cheating. So he's a stupid cheater.
No to Bonds in the Hall. If he is allowed in the Hall, then we need to start giving out steroids to kids in little league ball.
To the thread, I think he deserves the hall of fame, It's only fair.. I'm willing to bet he wouldn't be the first steroid user to be a HOFer.. His numbers are VERY deserving of it pre and post steroid use, also, how do you not put the home run king in there???
He needs to be in the Hall of Fame, so yes
IF bonds deserves to be in then Pete Rose should be in !!
Anyone else been watching Boardwalk Empire?!?!?!
Well I suppose like me these days you are all more interested by our 2013 SP than by a very sad story of what we all tought to be at the time a glorious past and what was in fact a very dirty story.
As a reminder because it was about 10 years ago already, Gagné was among our top prospect, had already a 95mph+ fastaball and begun his career as a starter. He suffered a Tommy John surgery very young and in 2002 was moved as our closer with his fasball reaching 98 (logical when you pitch 1 inning instead of 7) and one of the league best changeup as his out pitch.
He bet all the records in saves, consecutives saves (84) best season ever by a reliever 2003, his Cy Young year, he averaged per 9IP : 4h, 0.2HRs, 2.2BB, 15K, 1.20 era. Crazy numbers, impossible numbers, but I believed in it, I was a BIG, BIG fan, and he was from Quebec. And I was wrong, he was a cheater, and he used his fame thanks to us, the fans, to be paid millions.
I never wanted to believe he used drugs as he was still young, threw the same fastball, and how steroids could help you master a changeup ?
It's only on 2/21/2010 that he acknowledged a journalist of the LA Times he took not roids but HGH. Then the book.
There are many different kind of cheaters:
- The dead : from now on only Ken Caminiti who took cocaine too. It is verry sad but obvious that many other will join the list. Like in foofball (Lyle Alzado, Walter Payton) and cycling (Jacques Anquetill, Marco Pantani), or track and field (Florence Griffith-Joyner) Often cancers, only Alzado linked it to his use of drugs, but strange deaths each time)
- These who get caught while playing: Manny Ramirez, Cabrera
- Those who acknowledge and ask for forgiveness: Gagné, Mc Gwire, A Rod...
- Those whose number are simply not possible by a human being : Sosa, Clemens
- Those we just think they are dirty because thet played in that period: Piazza
- The one, only one who acknowledge he took steroids and HGH (HE said it, I did not) but swear he did not know there were illegal substances: Bonds. (I think he tought it was vitamin C. Logical. I wonder why Lance Armstrong did not use that as his defense for his 7 Tour de France win. I was a fan of Armstrong, before. Vitamin and sleeping pills ?
Back to Gagné: should he be forgiven as a man ? YES. Writing a redeem book must be tough. It's a man decision, and I strongly think he regrets it. Anyway it's not between the fans and him but between God and him for that "business"
Should he be forgiven as a player : NO, NEVER. Everything was fake, I believed in him, his supposed talent. I even travelled to LA especially to see him in what was to be his final save as a Dodger in 2006.
Like Armstrong, his Cy Young should be withdrawn (and given to nobody, I suppose number 2, 3 and 4 in Cy Young this year were dirty too) as well as his 84 saves record, given back to Gordon, his perfect 55 for 55 saves
It's a 300 pages book ... in French. Why ? Because French Canadian readers are certainly more indulgent, tolerant toward him. Or does he link his sins to the USA, and now he is back where he never cheated ? What do you think ?
He confessed only HGH, no steroids which seems logical. Steroid could not help him a lot at 28 with a 98mph fastball.
He acknowledged he took HGH on 5 occasion during 3 years in years around 2004. He is not precise but must be his best years 2002-2004. It helped him to heal and not getting injured, to play day to day to day without pain as if he had taken a week off. It allowed him to pitch with less warm up.
He says which is stupid if you don't give names 80% of the Dodgers used drugs during these years. But he gives the names of Lo Duca, Alan Mills, Todd Hundley, Kevin Brown.
He really is ashamed, he uses plenty of time the word HONTE (shame)
The most disguisting person in the book might be Scott Boras, his agent. Imagine how many millions he would have lost if a real scandal errupted. Gagné warns him he wanted to tell everything (that's at least what he writes). Boras said "NO ! Don't say a word, imagine you could even loose your Green Card, your children be obliged to leave their school." What a son of .... (I let you fill in the blanks)
As I let you fill in the blanks about what to think about all the players (see the top 3 HOF candidates) who still hides what nobody can believe unless they lie to themself)
By the way, Dirty Barry . Was not a real friend but close. They liked each other. I had never read anything about it. Bonds was really appreciated and admiredby Gagné. They even made little friendly bets about their duels. Will tell you more in part 2. BF
It's funny how the Dodgers are the new Yankees and the Yankees are the new Dodgers. We're willing to spend like crazy, but the Yankees have becoming penny pinchers ever since George Steinbrenner died.
Yeah dude it's weird.Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgerdave:24606067
I was. Listening to Harrold Reynolds and he was saying how he Yanks. Are getting out spent by other teams now I.e Pirates paying Russel Martin