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View Full Version : ***The Browns have a history of horrible 1st round choices***



onthefasttrack0
04-13-2009, 04:45 AM
Since 1975 the Browns have had 11 good 1st round choices and 24 horrible ones! I am counting no choice in the horrible category.

Year Sel Player Position School
2007 3 Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin - Pro Bowl Calibre
Clearly the best pick since 1993!

2007 22 Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame - Undetermined
Trade bait that could end up helping us in this draft.

2006 13 Kamerion Wimbley OLB Florida State - One year wonder
Passed on Haloti Ngata, Chad Greenway, DeAngeleo Williams, Nick Mangold, DeMeco Ryans

2005 3 Braylon Edwards WR Michigan - Should be traded
Passed on Antrel Rolle, DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman, Derrick Johnson, Roddy White

2004 6 Kellen Winslow TE Miami (Fla.) - Will never live up to his own hype
Passed on DeAngelo Hall, Ben Roethlisberger, Jonathon Vilma, Will Smith, Steven Jackson, Karlos Dansby, Igor Olshansky, Bob Sanders

2003 21 Jeff Faine C Notre Dame - Starter with the Saints...Servicable starter. Passed on Larry Johnson, Mick Barnett, Eric Steinbach, Charles Tillman, Rashean Mathis, Anquan Boldin, Osi Umenyiora, Lance Briggs

2002 16 William Green RB Boston College - Smoking Pot out of football
Passed on Phillip Buchanon, Javon Walker, Ed Reed, Lito Sheppard, LeCharles Bentley, Clinton Portis

2001 3 Gerard Warren DT Florida - Big "waste" of money
Passed on - LaDanian Tomlinson, Richard Seymour, Steve Hutchinson, Casey Hampton, Nate Clements, Drew Brees, Chad Johnson, Shaun Rodgers, Adrian Wilson, Steve Smith

2000 1 Courtney Brown DE Penn State - Another waste of a pick
Passed on LaVar Arrington, Jamal Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Julian Peterson, Shaun Alexander, Keith Bulluck, Laveranues Coles

1999 1 Tim Couch QB Kentucky - Crying somewhere wishing he was born Peyton Manning
Passed on Donovan McNabb, Edgerrin James, Torry Holt, Champ Bailey, Chris McAlister, Daunte Culpepper, Jevon Kearse, L.J. Shelton, Patrick Kerney, Al Wison

1998 No Pick -- Why couldn't the NFL given back the Browns this year. We would have had Peyton Manning.

1997 No Pick -- FU Art Modell
1996 No Pick -- FU Art Modell
1995 30 Craig Powell LB Ohio State - Played in 16 games over 3 years.

1994 9 Antonio Langham CB Alabama - 7 year career

1994 29 Derrick Alexander WR Michigan - 7,000 receiving yards

1993 14 Steve Everitt C Michigan - Started 98 games over 8 years

1992 9 Tommy Vardell FB Stanford - Touchdown Tommy had 21 in an 8 year career. The 9th pick overall? Really? Was kevin Mack sharing his crack with management that year?

1991 2 Eric Turner FS UCLA - The last hard hitter we had on defense!

1990 No Pick --

1989 13 Eric Metcalf WR Texas - Good all around playmaker

1988 21 Clifford Charlton LB Florida - Wow...played a worthless two seasons.

1987 5 Mike Junkin LB Duke - Just awful! Three seasons last one with KC.

1986 No Pick --
1985 No Pick --

1984 18 Don Rogers DB UCLA - Sad ending before it started.

1983 No Pick --

1982 3 Chip Banks LB USC - 11 year career. Top notch Linebacker.

1981 22 Hanford Dixon DB Southern Mississippi - The original Dawg!

1980 27 Charles White RB USC - Managed to squeeze 8 years of paychecks as a 2nd and 3rd stringer.

1979 20 Willis Adams WR Houston - Managed an astounding 968 yards receiving during an illustrious 7 year career.

1978 12 Clay Matthews LB USC - Hall of Famer

1978 23 Ozzie Newsome TE Alabama - Greatest TE in the history of the NFL. Bedeviling our team now.

1977 17 Robert Jackson LB Texas A&M - 5 years and out.

1976 7 Mike Pruitt RB Purdue - Solid 11 year career over 7,400 yards.

1975 5 Mack Mitchell DE Houston - 5 years and out.

1974 No Pick --
1973 16 Steve Holden WR Arizona State
1973 22 Pete Adams G USC
1972 18 Thom Darden DB Michigan
1971 14 Clarence Scott DB Kansas State
1970 3 Mike Phipps QB Purdue
1970 21 Bob McKay T Texas
1969 20 Ron Johnson RB Michigan
1968 21 Marv Upshaw DE Trinity (Tex.)
1967 18 Bob Matheson LB Duke
1966 Milt Morin TE Massachusetts
1965 No Pick --
1964 Paul Warfield WR Ohio State
1963 Tom Hutchinson WR Kentucky
1962 Gary Collins WR Maryland
1962 Leroy Jackson HB Western Illinois
1961 Bob Crespino TE Mississippi
1960 Jim Houston LB Ohio State
1959 Rich Kreitling OE Illinois
1958 Jim Shofner DB Texas Christian
1957 Jim Brown FB Syracuse
1956 Preston Carpenter OE Arkansas
1955 No Pick --
1954 1 Bobby Garrett QB Stanford
1954 John Bauer OG Illinois
1953 Doug Atkins DE Tennessee
1952 Bert Rechichar DB Tennessee
1951 Ken Konz DB Louisiana State
1950 Ken Carpenter HB Oregon State

What does all this mean? The new management team needs to get this one right. No mistakes. No tweeners, no gambles and no flashy picks. Pick the defensive monster who will give this defense an identity that has not been seen since the days of the original dawg pound!

Mangini and Kokonis, draft Rey Maualuga!!

All of the players we have passed on since 1999 were not "worthy" of being selected as high as the Browns were selecting. I would ask everyone of you...would you like to change any of the choices the Browns made with one of the "lessor" players?

cle12152433
04-13-2009, 09:25 AM
To be completely honest, I have a hard time when people call Tim Couch a bad pick. He was coming off a great career for Kentucky and was a smart pick at the time. The Browns needed a future franchise leader. Look at the people Couch was playing around. The Browns had NO running game, the Browns had NO offensive line. The Browns had NO receiving corps. Chris Palmer threw Tim Couch to the dogs. Ten years later its easy to criticize Policy and Smith for not choosing a better player in the long run, but at the time Tim Couch was a good pick.

Let us not forget that he was ALWAYS getting sacked, thus resulting in injury. He also had a very strong rookie year, given that the Browns were 2-14 and nobody on the team would have played for the Blind All-Stars.

steelcityroller
04-13-2009, 11:34 AM
To be completely honest, I have a hard time when people call Tim Couch a bad pick. He was coming off a great career for Kentucky and was a smart pick at the time. The Browns needed a future franchise leader. Look at the people Couch was playing around. The Browns had NO running game, the Browns had NO offensive line. The Browns had NO receiving corps. Chris Palmer threw Tim Couch to the dogs. Ten years later its easy to criticize Policy and Smith for not choosing a better player in the long run, but at the time Tim Couch was a good pick.

Let us not forget that he was ALWAYS getting sacked, thus resulting in injury. He also had a very strong rookie year, given that the Browns were 2-14 and nobody on the team would have played for the Blind All-Stars.

I agree and the situation is exactly like what happened to David Carr. When you are getting sacked 80-100 times a year with no running game, receivers or defense then failure is your destiny.

But still a big thing that people question is that Tim Couch was coming into the NFL having played in a system offense. It is easy to look back and say they probably would've been better off with McNabb or Culpepper but maybe people should've seen that back then as well.

onthefasttrack0
04-13-2009, 02:25 PM
Let's not forget that Peyton Manning went 2-14 in his 1st year with the Colts who were utterly horrible. He played in the same conference as Couch against the same opponents. Manning was always in the national championship picture while couch was lauded for an 8-4 campaign at Kentucky. Many of his long yardage passes in college were of the rainbow "someone please outjump the defense and catch this" variety.

We would have been better off to have drafted Javon Kearse as our 1st pick. Hell, I could have thrown darts at a draft baord the 1st three years and come up with better choices than they made.

Maybe I am just frustrated as a life long Browns fan, but all the years of draft futility are starting to wear on me. We passed on LaDanian Tomlinson for christ sakes. I seem to remember a big debate that year on that pick. The Chargers were drafting within a few picks of us those first years. WHo do you think did a better job?

DAWGPOUND
04-14-2009, 03:32 PM
To be completely honest, I have a hard time when people call Tim Couch a bad pick. He was coming off a great career for Kentucky and was a smart pick at the time. The Browns needed a future franchise leader. Look at the people Couch was playing around. The Browns had NO running game, the Browns had NO offensive line. The Browns had NO receiving corps. Chris Palmer threw Tim Couch to the dogs. Ten years later its easy to criticize Policy and Smith for not choosing a better player in the long run, but at the time Tim Couch was a good pick.

Let us not forget that he was ALWAYS getting sacked, thus resulting in injury. He also had a very strong rookie year, given that the Browns were 2-14 and nobody on the team would have played for the Blind All-Stars.

I agree with you on couch...Dude ran for his life...wanted to be a Brown. He got the raw deal...

I would kept Detmer on the field for 2 more years as we built somewhat of an offiensive line

The Tim Couch pick actually changed the NFL...now teams build a line around there QB investment...(last year Atlanta drafted a LT to protect Ryan)

cle12152433
04-14-2009, 06:50 PM
Let's not forget that Peyton Manning went 2-14 in his 1st year with the Colts who were utterly horrible. He played in the same conference as Couch against the same opponents. Manning was always in the national championship picture while couch was lauded for an 8-4 campaign at Kentucky. Many of his long yardage passes in college were of the rainbow "someone please outjump the defense and catch this" variety.

We would have been better off to have drafted Javon Kearse as our 1st pick. Hell, I could have thrown darts at a draft baord the 1st three years and come up with better choices than they made.

Maybe I am just frustrated as a life long Browns fan, but all the years of draft futility are starting to wear on me. We passed on LaDanian Tomlinson for christ sakes. I seem to remember a big debate that year on that pick. The Chargers were drafting within a few picks of us those first years. WHo do you think did a better job?

Yes, but look at who the Colts signed and drafted to help make Manning a better player.... I mean can you honestly compare Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison to Terry Kirby and Kevin Johnson (granted Johnson had a great year as a rookie on a **** team but his stats were not even close to Harrison)

In 1998, Tim Couch threw for 4,600 yards and 39 touchdowns. In 1997, Manning threw for 37 Td's and 3,800 yards. Now i was little back then and dont remeber much, but judging by there respective history, dont you think Manning would have had MORE weapons at TU???

And besides, 8-4 doesn't say much. Tim Couch cannot control how the defense performed.

Only ONCE in 1998 did Kentucky score less than 21 points (in fact they scored 20). They scored over 50 points 3 times, and scored over 31 points 8 times. What does that say about their defense???

onthefasttrack0
04-14-2009, 10:43 PM
Yes, but look at who the Colts signed and drafted to help make Manning a better player.... I mean can you honestly compare Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison to Terry Kirby and Kevin Johnson (granted Johnson had a great year as a rookie on a **** team but his stats were not even close to Harrison)

In 1998, Tim Couch threw for 4,600 yards and 39 touchdowns. In 1997, Manning threw for 37 Td's and 3,800 yards. Now i was little back then and dont remeber much, but judging by there respective history, dont you think Manning would have had MORE weapons at TU???

And besides, 8-4 doesn't say much. Tim Couch cannot control how the defense performed.

Only ONCE in 1998 did Kentucky score less than 21 points (in fact they scored 20). They scored over 50 points 3 times, and scored over 31 points 8 times. What does that say about their defense???

The year we drafted Tim Couch this is who we passed on:
Donovan McNabb, Edgerrin James, Torry Holt, Champ Bailey, Chris McAlister, Daunte Culpepper, Jevon Kearse, L.J. Shelton, Patrick Kerney, Al Wison

Everybody can say hindsight is 20/20, but the NFL has really bad problem with relative draft position. They are so afraid to draft someone higher than the projections that it forces teams to limit their pool of college players. Even so the Browns were looking at McNabb, Culpepper and Akili Smith. Call me crazy but...Couch was the only white QB and I am convinced to this day that that was the overiding reason he was picked. Athletically he was not anywhere near as gifted as Culpepper or McNabb. Personally I would have taken Kearse or Shelton, both of whom were rated as the best at thier respective positions.

cle12152433
04-15-2009, 06:54 AM
The year we drafted Tim Couch this is who we passed on:
Donovan McNabb, Edgerrin James, Torry Holt, Champ Bailey, Chris McAlister, Daunte Culpepper, Jevon Kearse, L.J. Shelton, Patrick Kerney, Al Wison
.



Yes, I know we passed on these players, but my point is that AT THE TIME it was a good pick. Its easy to criticize GM's or coaches for not picking the best player ten years later

Look at it this way. Matthew Stafford right now is probably the number one picked and would be picked every time for a million years over QB Josh Freeman (or any other player picked that far down). If this happened today, fans would be outraged. But ten years from now, if Stafford was a bust and Freeman was great, would it be fair to criticize the Lions for picking Stafford over Freeman.

I understand your point, but Tim Couch was not a bad pick. Imagine how good he could have been behind an O-Line and with recievers and backs on a team that was actually good.

phitautimmy
04-15-2009, 10:03 AM
Wasn't the bid debate in '99 on whether to take Couch or Ricky Williams?

DieHardColtsfan
04-15-2009, 10:31 AM
The year we drafted Tim Couch this is who we passed on:
Donovan McNabb, Edgerrin James, Torry Holt, Champ Bailey, Chris McAlister, Daunte Culpepper, Jevon Kearse, L.J. Shelton, Patrick Kerney, Al Wison

Everybody can say hindsight is 20/20, but the NFL has really bad problem with relative draft position. They are so afraid to draft someone higher than the projections that it forces teams to limit their pool of college players. Even so the Browns were looking at McNabb, Culpepper and Akili Smith. Call me crazy but...Couch was the only white QB and I am convinced to this day that that was the overiding reason he was picked. Athletically he was not anywhere near as gifted as Culpepper or McNabb. Personally I would have taken Kearse or Shelton, both of whom were rated as the best at thier respective positions.


Dont play that card! Maybe its true, could very much be, but theres no reason to bring that up, b/c in my opinion Cullpepper/McNabb & Smith all done absolutly crap as well..Scrambling QB's dont fair well Look at the past, Culpepper is lucky he even has a knee left after tearing 3 ligaments. McNabb has been injured multiple times in his career, and yes cant win a big game. With the offensive line you guys had then McNabb and Culpepper's careers could have been over maybe a while back.. Maybe im old fashioned but these guys you mention are prodominat scrambling QB's who scramble right into injury problems... So im spoiled w/ Peyton Manning fine, lol, but Couch was better suited for the NFL at that point, even today a scrambling Qb doesnt fair well. During Vick's playing days he was often injured. They are exciting players to watch but in my opinion McNabb-Culpepper type QB's will never win a championship.. McNabb has changed a lot, b/c his mobility and his body wont allow him to run any more, b/c his body took a beating in the past... Just dont say Couch was picked cause hes white.. look at the track record for NFL superbowl winning QB's. Is there much legitamicy that a prodominant scrambling QB has won? Thats what these guys were in College.. Teams shyed away.. Marcus Vick was switched to WR, Pat White will prob be converted as well..They are freak athletes but not NFL QB's.

cle12152433
04-15-2009, 10:54 AM
Well Ricky Williams was debated, and he was considered but the bigger issue was picking between Couch and Akili Smith.

jcpainter13
04-15-2009, 01:45 PM
Spergen Wynn QB anyone? Hey lets take the guy from no where over Tom Brady the guy who plays for a large well know school Michigan? I mean I agree on the Couch situation he had nothing and had to run for his life. I mean when KJ, Terry Kirby, Eric Rhett, and Jawan Dawson are your major targets your not going to do very well. Also we had no line, the only lineman we had got hit in the eye by a ref's flag. The Browns need to pick smart this year depending on the Edwards situation. Trade him draft a wide out with our 5th pick and demand anther 1st round pick with that one you get a defensive player. In round 2 a secondary player (yeah Mike Adams really?) and a running back that can be an eventual starter and carry the load.

jcpainter13
04-15-2009, 01:48 PM
Here is also a list of players we drafted in all rounds and the players we passed on (not all the players just comparable ones):

>1999 NFL Draft
[Round 1]
Browns Pick: Tim Couch QB

Player(s) Available: Donovan Mcnabb QB

[Round 2]
Browns Pick: Kevin Johnson WR

Player(s) Available::
-Mike Peterson LB
-Jon Jansen RT

[Round 3]
Browns Pick: Daylon McCutcheon CB

Player(s) Available::
-Marty Booker WR
-Mike McKenezie CB

>2000 NFL Draft
[Round 1]
Browns Pick: Courtney Brown DE

Player(s) Available::
-Chris Sammuels LT
-Jamal Lewis RB
-Brain Urlacher LB
-Julian Peterson LB
-Shuan Alexander RB

[Round 2]
Browns Pick: Dennis Northcutt WR

Player(s) Available::
-Chad Clifton LT
-Marcus Washington LB

[Round 3]
Browns Pick: Travis Prentice RB

Player(s) Available:: Laveranues Coles WR




[Round 6]
Browns Pick: Spergen Wynn QB

Player(s) Available::
-Adalius Thomas LB
-Tom Brady QB




>2001 NFL Draft
[Round 1]
Browns Pick: Big Money DT

Player(s) Available::
-Ladainian Tomlinson RB
-Richard Seymor DE
-Marcus Stroud DT
-Steve Hutchinson LG
-Casey Hampton DT
-Nate Clements CB
-Chris McAllister CB
-Reggie Wayne WR

[Round 2]
Browns Pick: Quincy Morgan WR

Player(s) Available::
-Chad Johnson WR
-Chris Chambers WR

[Round 3]
Browns Pick: James Jackson RB

Player(s) Available::
-Adrian Wilson S
-Steve Smith WR

[Round 7]
Browns Pick: Paul Zukauskas G

Player(s) Available::
-T.J. Houshmandzadeh WR



>2002 NFL Draft
[Round 1]
Browns Pick: William Green RB

Player(s) Available::
-Ed Reed S
-Lito Sheppard CB

[Round 2]
Browns Pick: Andre Davis WR

Player(s) Available:
-Clinton Portis RB

[Round 3]
Browns Pick: Melvin Flower C

Player(s) Available::
-Brian Westbrook RB

[Round 5] *Toss up still a good pick
Browns Pick: Andra Davis LB

Player(s) Available:
-Aaron Kampman DE

>2003 NFL Draft
[Round 1]
Browns Pick: Jeff Faine

Player(s) Available:
-Willis McGahee RB
-Larry Johnson RB

[Round 2]
Browns Pick: Chuan Thompson LB

Player(s) Available:
-Anquan Boldin WR
-Osi Umenyiora DE

[Round 4]
Browns Pick: Lee Suggs RB

Player(s) Available:
-Asante Samuel CB


[Round 6]
Browns Pick: Antonio Garay DE

Player(s) Available:
-Cato June LB

cle12152433
04-15-2009, 03:24 PM
I like the Kevin Johnson pick. He was a good reciever who had a stellar rookie year (986 recieving yards).

Again, AT THE TIME, everyone liked the Courtney Browns pick. He was an animal in college and had a strong rookie year. Injury's are what dug him his grave.

I think it's hard to get mad about who we passed on after round 3. At that point any of those players are hidden gems and coaches take a gamble on them. I mean who in the Patriots staff said " Lets pick Tom Brady with our 6th round pick because he will win us Super Bowl's and MVP's"??? They probably said "Okay, lets find a young backup for Bledsoe who has an average chance of filling in for Drew if he gets hurt or the score margin is huge."

Same goes for Asante Samuel and T.J. Houshamndzadeh.

Hermie13
04-16-2009, 12:48 PM
We also passed on Roy Williams (the WR) when we picked Winslow. Roy went right after to the Lions.....think, had just NOT trade our 1st and 2nd rounder to move up 1 freakin spot we'd of had Williams and not have had a need to draft Edwards the next year. Could have traded down or gone defense there.

Man I hated Butch Davis, lol.


As far as Couch....he was a bad pick and wasn't that hard to tell. he was a system QB that didn't run a pro-style offense. Most guys like that struggle in the NFL, and couch was no exception.

phitautimmy
04-16-2009, 03:18 PM
I wish we still had Jeff Faine

Essex Ace
04-16-2009, 03:38 PM
We also passed on Roy Williams (the WR) when we picked Winslow. Roy went right after to the Lions.....think, had just NOT trade our 1st and 2nd rounder to move up 1 freakin spot we'd of had Williams and not have had a need to draft Edwards the next year. Could have traded down or gone defense there.

Man I hated Butch Davis, lol.


As far as Couch....he was a bad pick and wasn't that hard to tell. he was a system QB that didn't run a pro-style offense. Most guys like that struggle in the NFL, and couch was no exception.

i think everyone did haha. And i disagree on Couch, as someone previously mentioned scrambling QB's don't win and Couch was a pocket passer with awesome college stats. If the Browns had had an O-line, WRs and a running game, Couch would still be the Browns QB IMO and would have been very successful.

Kokasaurus
04-16-2009, 06:42 PM
Besides... gotta think that if you are an expansion team choosing a QB #1 overall, you MIGHT want to tailor your offense to his strengths, let alone keep him off his back.

cle12152433
04-17-2009, 10:55 AM
if the browns had had an o-line, wrs and a running game, couch would still be the browns qb imo and would have been very successful.

exactly, well put, debate ended.

Hermie13
04-17-2009, 12:52 PM
I wish we still had Jeff Faine

Me too....but I also with Bentley had stayed healthy, lol.

We did get Jackson though by trading Faine.....other than Rogers, he's our best defensive player right now....

Hermie13
04-17-2009, 12:55 PM
i think everyone did haha. And i disagree on Couch, as someone previously mentioned scrambling QB's don't win and Couch was a pocket passer with awesome college stats. If the Browns had had an O-line, WRs and a running game, Couch would still be the Browns QB IMO and would have been very successful.

Couch wasn't a real pocket passer in college though. He ran the shot-gun offense and did move around a bit. Even with an o-line and running game, I can't see Couch still being the Browns QB.

Couch never should have been taken #1 plain and simple. Colt Brennan ran an 'Air Raid' type offense as well. That's all Couch was or ever would have been. Couch didn't use a running game really in college.

onthefasttrack0
04-19-2009, 08:15 PM
Couch wasn't a real pocket passer in college though. He ran the shot-gun offense and did move around a bit. Even with an o-line and running game, I can't see Couch still being the Browns QB.

Couch never should have been taken #1 plain and simple. Colt Brennan ran an 'Air Raid' type offense as well. That's all Couch was or ever would have been. Couch didn't use a running game really in college.

You said it perfectly. Couch was a system QB who thrived on throwing the ball with rainbow like trajectory in college to receivers who could out jump the defense. He failed in Seattle where quite possibly one of the greatest gurus to QB's (Mike Holmgren) couldn 't help him. His arm was not strong enough to make the NFL throw.

While I loved watching Texas Tech's offense this year, their QB will have the same problem Couch did. He is truly a system QB, which is why his name is not being mentioned in the 1st round. Some team will take flier on him in the later rounds, but it will take a few years for him to develop enough to be a quality NFL QB if ever.

Suffice to say, the Browns last 10 years of drafts have been pathetic, bumbling messes. I could have thrown darts at a draft board and had better success. The new regime needs to get this one right. No mistakes with any picks whatsoever!!

bigtime1957
04-19-2009, 09:35 PM
With these two jokers running the ship. They will end up at Gilligan's Island. There already lost. Just we will not search for them. And to those who chose to go to there draft party. And buy there tickets, and buy there merchandise. You and you mostly are the down fall of this team. Stay away do not buy nothing. Send a message. We are sick of the spin and the BS............When LOSERS run things you will always be losers.................

Rockets&Browns
04-21-2009, 07:09 AM
i think everyone did haha. And i disagree on Couch, as someone previously mentioned scrambling QB's don't win and Couch was a pocket passer with awesome college stats. If the Browns had had an O-line, WRs and a running game, Couch would still be the Browns QB IMO and would have been very successful.

I also believe Couch would have been successful if we had an O-line and running back to protect him but I much rather had preferred McNabb though. I'm a multi-racial man from Philly and black being one of them.........I just think the Browns were petrified of taking a black QB with the #1 pick! LOL!

cle12152433
04-21-2009, 09:34 AM
I just think the Browns were petrified of taking a black QB with the #1 pick! LOL!

Are you kidding?