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gottaHaveHart
11-12-2008, 02:57 AM
predict what our pitching staff will look like in '09
These are the pitchers on our 40 man roster bold are free agents
-31 Dave Bush
-39 Chris Capuano
-60 Todd Coffey
-45 Mark DiFelice
-48 Tim Dillard
-38 Eric Gagne
-49 Yovani Gallardo
-73 Seth McClung
-58 Guillermo Mota
-43 Manny Parra
-62 Luis Pena
-54 David Riske
-52 CC Sabathia
-15 Ben Sheets
-51 Brian Shouse
-57 Mitch Stetter
-37 Jeff Suppan
-12 Carlos Villanueva


Leave as free agents, don't resign or are injured
52 CC Sabathia (too much money out there)type A
15 Ben Sheets type A
38 Eric Gagne Type b?
51 Brian Shouse (i have read of many other teams interested) type B
39 Chris Capuano

Triple A
62 Luis Pena
2009 with current players
Starting Rotation
1. 49 Yovani Gallardo
2. 31 Dave Bush
3. 43 Manny Parra
4. 73 Seth McClung
5. 37 Jeff Suppan

Bullpen
57 Mitch Stetter
54 David Riske
48 Tim Dillard
60 Todd Coffey
45 Mark DiFelice
58 Guillermo Mota
12 Carlos Villanueva

Closer
???


Some parts look scary. What do you want the rotation and bullpen to look like, or moves to be made?

brewersfan729
11-12-2008, 03:33 AM
Sabathia will leave. Sheets' injury might have him accept arbitration, at least that's my prediction.

My best guess.

Ben Sheets
Yovani Gallardo
Manny Parra
Dave Bush
Jeff Suppan

Carlos Villanueva
David Riske
Seth McClung
Mitch Stetter
Brian Shouse
Todd Coffey
Mark DiFelice

Chris Capuano re-signed to a minor league deal.
Eric Gagne not offered arbitration.

nwilfan
11-12-2008, 02:26 PM
I think Shouse will be back, Torres retiring kind of forces Melvin's hand and he gets the 2 year deal he wants. He made the comment that he would like to be back with the Brewers. That gives you the lefty specialist plus Stetter (2 lefties in the pen) who I think is a good lefty reliever, not just a specialist.

Other than that, too messy to predict. On a limb I'll say....C.C. will probably be gone, and Sheets brought back. Gallardo, Parra, Bush and Suppan round out the starters :down:

Pen: Riske, Stetter, Shouse, McClung, Villanueve, one more from the roster Coffey?, and 1 free agent

some people say Pena will be up but I don't think there's any way that happens

OC Knights #11
11-12-2008, 06:10 PM
that is scary.

hgtiger32
11-12-2008, 07:57 PM
i am afraid of sheets accepting our arbitration offer

brewersfan729
11-12-2008, 08:21 PM
i am afraid of sheets accepting our arbitration offer

Yeah, it would be terrible to have an ace pitcher on a one year deal.:rolleyes:

statquo
11-12-2008, 10:05 PM
Looking for a closer? Would BJ Ryan interest you? We'll even devour some of his contract.

brewersfan729
11-12-2008, 10:13 PM
I wouldn't give up a lot for him.

BrewPackBuckfan
11-12-2008, 10:45 PM
I like this scenario. Sign Trevor Hoffman to a 2 year deal worth 10 million if we don't get CC. Another guy I would love to have Will Ohman that guy is pretty good I hear I watched him pitch a couple times he seems decent. try out Carlos villeneuva at Closer the kid has some decent stuff or at least have him be the 8th inning guy. Another guy im hoping to come back Derrick Turnbow I know your all going to go crazy when you read this but just have him pitch a few games if he does horrible straight up release him but if he does fine start shopping him around your bound to get something even if it is for another bullpen guy it could be one of those Grant Balfour things the guy sucked we traded him got Seth McClung and look what the guy has done ya he aint the best but he ain't the worst. I know AJ burnett is going to be an expensive guy but a 4 year 40 million contract should get him to sign.

Bullpen: Closer: Trevor Hoffman SU: Carlos V Relief: Seth McClung, Todd Coffey, Tim Dillard(may have a spot in starting rotation), Mark Defilice.
Lefty: Mitch Stetter, Chris Cappy (starting off in bullpen)

Rotation: Galardo, Burnett, Parra, Jeffries (this kid has a good shot starting this year), Bush.
Trade Jeff Suppan and Bill Hall to Rockies for Garrett Atkins + offer to eat up some of Soupy's contract.

See if any takers for Rickie Weeks.

this maybe be a lot of wish full thinking but alot of this could happen like Trevor Hoffman and possibly if we gain intrest in Burnett I know Melvin was going to try and get him if we didnt get CC.

brewersfan729
11-12-2008, 11:39 PM
Jeffress has no chance of starting in the majors this year. He may get a shot in the bullpen as his innings get higher, but there's no chance he's in the rotation.

Dcup
11-13-2008, 12:11 AM
I say try McClung in the Closer role. He's got some nast heat, and movement, plus I love the guys' intensity.

kingofdaburbs19
11-13-2008, 12:24 AM
Yeah, it would be terrible to have an ace pitcher on a one year deal.:rolleyes:

yea it would be terrible because he is a terrible pitcher what has he done that means anything to this team?

brewersfan729
11-13-2008, 12:40 AM
yea it would be terrible because he is a terrible pitcher what has he done that means anything to this team?

You serious?

brewersfan729
11-13-2008, 01:04 AM
I would take Sabathia and Lowe over Sheets. Sheets over everybody else though.

BroJoMan
11-13-2008, 01:49 AM
yea it would be terrible because he is a terrible pitcher what has he done that means anything to this team?

wow... have you ever watched this guy pitch?? when healthy he can be truely unhittable

gottaHaveHart
11-13-2008, 01:51 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing Oliver Perez for the fact he is a lefty and still young(27)


I have to comment on this a little...

I like this scenario. Sign Trevor Hoffman to a 2 year deal worth 10 million if we don't get CC. Another guy I would love to have Will Ohman that guy is pretty good I hear I watched him pitch a couple times he seems decent. try out Carlos villeneuva at Closer the kid has some decent stuff or at least have him be the 8th inning guy. Another guy im hoping to come back Derrick Turnbow I know your all going to go crazy when you read this but just have him pitch a few games if he does horrible straight up release him but if he does fine start shopping him around your bound to get something even if it is for another bullpen guy it could be one of those Grant Balfour things the guy sucked we traded him got Seth McClung and look what the guy has done ya he aint the best but he ain't the worst. I know AJ burnett is going to be an expensive guy but a 4 year 40 million contract should get him to sign.

Bullpen: Closer: Trevor Hoffman SU: Carlos V Relief: Seth McClung, Todd Coffey, Tim Dillard(may have a spot in starting rotation), Mark Defilice.
Lefty: Mitch Stetter, Chris Cappy (starting off in bullpen)

Rotation: Galardo, Burnett, Parra, Jeffries (this kid has a good shot starting this year), Bush.
Trade Jeff Suppan and Bill Hall to Rockies for Garrett Atkins + offer to eat up some of Soupy's contract.

See if any takers for Rickie Weeks.

this maybe be a lot of wish full thinking but alot of this could happen like Trevor Hoffman and possibly if we gain intrest in Burnett I know Melvin was going to try and get him if we didnt get CC.

1. there is no way Soup and Hall get traded together.. that is like 18mil
jeffries had some rough spot in AA and is still a few years away...
Dilliard is not even close to the rotation.
Cappy could be BP but probably will have to take a minor contract and prove he is healthy first...

brewersfan729
11-13-2008, 03:48 AM
I also don't believe Melvin will trade Suppan at all. If he does that he pretty much admits to everyone what we already know that Suppan wasn't worth what he got.

Melvin would move Suppan in a second if someone would take him. He would love to get his salary off the books. Unfortunately, nobody is going to take him at that salary.

nwilfan
11-13-2008, 09:58 AM
Is Coffey under contract? I thought he was signed through the end of the year but hasn't filed for free agency yet. Or is he one of those arbitration guys? I really would like to see him back because he was very good down the strech.

When they got him last year it was after the deadline for him to be on the playoff roster (can't remember that date, Sept 1st?) and Melvin made the comment that this was a signing more for next year than for this. So they must have control over him for at least 1 year.

nwilfan
11-13-2008, 10:05 AM
I know AJ burnett is going to be an expensive guy but a 4 year 40 million contract should get him to sign.

I wish this were true.....:clap:

but there is no way we get burnett for 4yr- $40million. He just opted out of a contract with 2yrs at $24 million and the Jays were reported to have offered a 2 year extension for $30 million, making the contract worth $54 million over 4 years. He still opted out.. because he knows someone (Yankees) will offer him 4-5 years at $60-$75 million. Unfortunately $40 million won't even get a reply from his agent.

nwilfan
11-14-2008, 08:22 AM
The fact is the Blue Jays are not able to compete with the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox and now with the Rays being a young but pretty good team they are no more than 4th best in the east. I would jump ship also to go to a different team. Even if its the Brewers for less, he has the chance to play for a playoff contender.

I agree with this part, but I don't see him taking $14 million less. He will have several suiters, the Yankees already said they will take a look and a lot of other teams can make a better offer than $10 million a year for a guy who is probably the most sought after FA pitchers. I hope I'm wrong, I hope the Brewers can get him for that but I think its wishful thinkful

Brooke
11-14-2008, 08:27 AM
yea it would be terrible because he is a terrible pitcher what has he done that means anything to this team?

are you serious? He may get hurt a lot but when he is on his game and healthy he can be unhittable

favre_4life
11-14-2008, 01:44 PM
Im so sick of people saying, "when Ben Sheet is healthy..." Guess what! HE NEVER IS! Let it go, along with letting Ben Sheets go. What has he done for the Brewers? Rob them of almost 40 mill? Thats about it.

Brooke
11-14-2008, 01:52 PM
and I am getting sick of people trashing him constantly like he never did anything good for this team. That is a bunch of crap

Brooke
11-14-2008, 02:37 PM
Sheets was healthy all year long until September when his arm tired because he hasn't pitched that many innings in a while. Even Zambrano tired. Even if they get 20 starts out of him thats better than having 33 starts of Suppan, Bush or some crappy journeyman free agent they're going to have to sign to keep payroll down.

Amen.

WI Sports Fan
11-15-2008, 01:07 AM
Im so sick of people saying, "when Ben Sheet is healthy..." Guess what! HE NEVER IS! Let it go, along with letting Ben Sheets go. What has he done for the Brewers? Rob them of almost 40 mill? Thats about it.

"All" Sheets did for the Brewers was post arguably the best season a starting pitcher has ever had in a Milwaukee uniform and probably the best any of us will ever see, at least for a long time.

He's always hurt? A SP makes a maximum of what, 34 starts in a year? That means over the course of Sheets' career, he has been on the mound for over 84% of the starts he could've made.

He's only represented us in the All-Star game 4 of his 8 seasons.

You're so right, all he's done is rob the Brewers of $40 million.

The opinion that we shouldn't resign Sheets is a reasonable one, but your argument is comical at best.

packerfan4321
11-15-2008, 03:45 AM
Yeah hes been good for us, but with Suppans bad contract the brewers cant afford to dish out the money for a SP that is injury prone. It will be interesting to see what kinda offers Brad Penny gets...

gottaHaveHart
11-15-2008, 12:59 PM
"All" Sheets did for the Brewers was post arguably the best season a starting pitcher has ever had in a Milwaukee uniform and probably the best any of us will ever see, at least for a long time.

He's always hurt? A SP makes a maximum of what, 34 starts in a year? That means over the course of Sheets' career, he has been on the mound for over 84% of the starts he could've made.

He's only represented us in the All-Star game 4 of his 8 seasons.

You're so right, all he's done is rob the Brewers of $40 million.

The opinion that we shouldn't resign Sheets is a reasonable one, but your argument is comical at best.

Wow thats a great way to put it...:clap:

Brewfan
11-15-2008, 06:46 PM
Agreed. There needs to be a viable alternative to replace guys that we are losing. The Brewers should offer Sheets a short-term contract, all things considered.

That said, I'm betting he ends up with the Rangers.

gottaHaveHart
11-16-2008, 02:39 AM
yeah, the rangers, us if the yankees dont get himare dome of the best bets

Brew Crew
11-16-2008, 11:44 AM
I know AJ burnett is going to be an expensive guy but a 4 year 40 million contract should get him to sign.

Yeah so you complain about Sheets being overpaid and hurt all the time...Yet you don't realize Burnett is the same way.


Rotation: Galardo, Burnett, Parra, Jeffries (this kid has a good shot starting this year), Bush.

How in the world do you think Jeffries will be in the starting rotation? Dude, follow some of these guys for a change.


Trade Jeff Suppan and Bill Hall to Rockies for Garrett Atkins + offer to eat up some of Soupy's contract.

Do you really think someone wants to take on a combined nearly $20 million in contracts from two of the most mediocre players in the MLB? We might as well hold on to them now and anything good we get out of them is a bonus.

gottaHaveHart
11-16-2008, 01:01 PM
^^^^ i made those points earlier on in thread...

gottaHaveHart
11-16-2008, 02:53 PM
i kinda have the same feeling... but if there was any way to get rid of soup, i'm all for it

crewfan13
11-16-2008, 05:30 PM
i actually think weeks has a better chance than hall of bouncing back this year as long as they let him bat 7th or 8th cuz then he doesn't feel as much pressure to "set the table" and he'll be free to swing the bat rather than take 2 fastballs for strikes then swing at a bad strike 3 like he did alot this year

Dcup
11-16-2008, 07:44 PM
i actually think weeks has a better chance than hall of bouncing back this year as long as they let him bat 7th or 8th cuz then he doesn't feel as much pressure to "set the table" and he'll be free to swing the bat rather than take 2 fastballs for strikes then swing at a bad strike 3 like he did alot this year

Even with Weeks batting 7th or 8th we still dont want him to be a free swinger. That is what we are trying to fix with him, not encourage it.

brewersfan729
11-16-2008, 07:48 PM
Weeks isn't a free swinger.

Brewfan
11-16-2008, 09:44 PM
Weeks was 3rd among NL 2B in walks (66). He just needs to work on his pitch selection and make more contact (2nd among NL 2B in Ks with 115).

WI Sports Fan
11-16-2008, 09:46 PM
Even with Weeks batting 7th or 8th we still dont want him to be a free swinger. That is what we are trying to fix with him, not encourage it.

Yeah, a lot of good that has done. They tried to make him a conventional leadoff hitter, but that's something he'll never be, and it has heavily harmed him as a player.

crewfan13
11-17-2008, 01:44 AM
the reason weeks strikes out so much is because he watches so many pitches early in the count, which results in alot of walks if pitches are throwing balls early, but if pitchers are coming out with first pitch fastballs for strikes, i think he's gotta be swinging and i didn't see him do that too often. thats why he strikes out quite a bit too, cuz he gets behind early and has to get defensive with his swing. i'm not saying i want weeks to come out hacking and swinging at sliders in the dirt and fastballs at his eyes, i just think that if he comes out and swings at a couple of those first pitch fastballs right down the shoot, pitchers will think twice about starting him off fastball everytime, making him a more valuable hitter

crewfan13
11-17-2008, 01:46 AM
cuz then he'll get ahead in counts more and his power will come as well, and he'll still walk enough too because he's ahead in counts

favre_4life
11-18-2008, 10:54 PM
"All" Sheets did for the Brewers was post arguably the best season a starting pitcher has ever had in a Milwaukee uniform and probably the best any of us will ever see, at least for a long time.

He's always hurt? A SP makes a maximum of what, 34 starts in a year? That means over the course of Sheets' career, he has been on the mound for over 84% of the starts he could've made.

He's only represented us in the All-Star game 4 of his 8 seasons.

You're so right, all he's done is rob the Brewers of $40 million.

The opinion that we shouldn't resign Sheets is a reasonable one, but your argument is comical at best.

When the hell did Ben Sheets have such a good season? His best record was 12-5 and that was in 2007. He's never even won more then 13 games! Give me a break, you want to talk about comical! What's comical is the idea of calling Ben Sheets an ace when he hasn't won more then 13 games, EVER.

long ball
11-18-2008, 11:15 PM
When the hell did Ben Sheets have such a good season? His best record was 12-5 and that was in 2007. He's never even won more then 13 games! Give me a break, you want to talk about comical! What's comical is the idea of calling Ben Sheets an ace when he hasn't won more then 13 games, EVER.

That might be one of the most ignorant posts I have ever read.

In 2004 sheets started 34 games, 237 ip, 2.70 era, 264 Ks, 32 walks, and a whip of .98

That's a good ****ing season.

long ball
11-18-2008, 11:17 PM
Comparing those stats to Lincecum's Cy Young season they are about the same or better in all categories besides wins.

Madtown343
11-18-2008, 11:45 PM
Thats more than a good season. That is a 20+ win season on even a mediocre team. People who discredit Sheets for the win/loss record should not even have their posts read because they have already lost any and all credibility.

Madtown343
11-18-2008, 11:46 PM
Oh and i was saying that to Fave4life not you longball... I was agreeing with you, just saying that is better than just good.

Drawantz
11-19-2008, 02:30 AM
Sheets was the only star the Brewers had on some very crappy teams and watching him every 5th day eased the pain of 90-100 loss seasons. He has done as much for the Brewer fans who were around for the dark ages as an current Brewer has yet done.

brewersfan729
11-19-2008, 03:45 AM
What's comical is the idea of calling Ben Sheets an ace when he hasn't won more then 13 games, EVER.

The comical thing to me is using wins and losses to judge how good a pitcher is.

favre_4life
11-19-2008, 09:44 AM
You people are so fast to throw out stats. Its like the stats equal wins. But at the end of the day, they don't. All Im saying is that Ben Sheets never carried this team, like most of you say he did. CC Sabathia carried this team into the playoffs, where was Ben Sheets when all of this happened, in the most critical run to the playoffs for the Brewers in the last decade? Where? DL. Thats where he was, and that is why he is not an ace. By the way, you cannot tell me that Tim Lincecum had any better of a team this year.Now Im sure that all of you will make the excuse that he plays in a weaker division too, but the NL central hasn't always been the greatest either. Obviously Im not going to convince any of you blind people, and thats not what Im trying to do, Im just trying to establish the fact that Ben Sheets is overrated, and unless he can stay healthy will never be an ace.

Brew Crew
11-19-2008, 10:26 AM
You people are so fast to throw out stats. Its like the stats equal wins. But at the end of the day, they don't. All Im saying is that Ben Sheets never carried this team, like most of you say he did. CC Sabathia carried this team into the playoffs, where was Ben Sheets when all of this happened, in the most critical run to the playoffs for the Brewers in the last decade? Where? DL. Thats where he was, and that is why he is not an ace. By the way, you cannot tell me that Tim Lincecum had any better of a team this year.Now Im sure that all of you will make the excuse that he plays in a weaker division too, but the NL central hasn't always been the greatest either. Obviously Im not going to convince any of you blind people, and thats not what Im trying to do, Im just trying to establish the fact that Ben Sheets is overrated, and unless he can stay healthy will never be an ace.

Ben Sheets was the only bright spot on this team through its darkest of days. Sure I couldn't stand him because of all of his injuries but to say the sort of things you are saying, you are being an idiot. Ben Sheets cried throughout this last month so do you really think this injury was bs? Seeing that you can hardly comprehend stats, I'm not going to dig up the article where I read that because you probably wouldn't understand it.

I'm going to take a guess and say you never watched a game during the 2004 season when Ben Sheets was definetely a top 3 pitcher in the league and still only won 12 games despite a 2.74 ERA and 264 K's to only 32 walks in 237 innings. So to use wins and loses for ANY pitcher earns you an automatic (and I think I speak for mostly everyone here) :down: Aside from his freak injuries, Sheets has ace stuff, and we've all seen it. Not to mention the Brewers seemed to slide everytime he got hurt, so what does that tell you? I think they counted on Sheets because they saw him as their best pitcher.

Brooke
11-19-2008, 01:12 PM
You people are so fast to throw out stats. Its like the stats equal wins. But at the end of the day, they don't. All Im saying is that Ben Sheets never carried this team, like most of you say he did. CC Sabathia carried this team into the playoffs, where was Ben Sheets when all of this happened, in the most critical run to the playoffs for the Brewers in the last decade? Where? DL. Thats where he was, and that is why he is not an ace. By the way, you cannot tell me that Tim Lincecum had any better of a team this year.Now Im sure that all of you will make the excuse that he plays in a weaker division too, but the NL central hasn't always been the greatest either. Obviously Im not going to convince any of you blind people, and thats not what Im trying to do, Im just trying to establish the fact that Ben Sheets is overrated, and unless he can stay healthy will never be an ace.


Um are you forgetting for awhile Sheets was the only bright spot we had on this team for awhile. Sure I hated that he got hurt all the time BUT it doesnt take away what he has done for this team

Did you watch 2004 and the year Sheets had???

amazing how some are so quick to forget what he can do, and if you think he is easy to replace you can think again

favre_4life
11-19-2008, 01:26 PM
Ben Sheets was the only bright spot on this team through its darkest of days. Sure I couldn't stand him because of all of his injuries but to say the sort of things you are saying, you are being an idiot. Ben Sheets cried throughout this last month so do you really think this injury was bs? Seeing that you can hardly comprehend stats, I'm not going to dig up the article where I read that because you probably wouldn't understand it.

I'm going to take a guess and say you never watched a game during the 2004 season when Ben Sheets was definetely a top 3 pitcher in the league and still only won 12 games despite a 2.74 ERA and 264 K's to only 32 walks in 237 innings. So to use wins and loses for ANY pitcher earns you an automatic (and I think I speak for mostly everyone here) :down: Aside from his freak injuries, Sheets has ace stuff, and we've all seen it. Not to mention the Brewers seemed to slide everytime he got hurt, so what does that tell you? I think they counted on Sheets because they saw him as their best pitcher.

Come on Crew, lets keep the name calling at bay here.Its not that I cant comprehend stats, its just that you all are so quick to pull out stats on everything. STATS DONT WIN GAMES. Also the last time we were talking about bright spots on our team fomr back in the day, just about all of you said that Geoff Jenkins was "the only bright spot on oue team." Freak Injuries! How about lack of commitment to the game. How many times had he come into training camp out of shape? Or how about those darn blisters on his fingers that kept him from pitching. FREAKISH! I agree that he does have ace "stuff" but that doesn't make him a legit ace. I will also agree with you that we counted on him as an ace, but that still does not justify him as a true ace. By the way, one good season also doesn't justify anything either.

long ball
11-19-2008, 01:30 PM
You people are so fast to throw out stats. Its like the stats equal wins. But at the end of the day, they don't. All Im saying is that Ben Sheets never carried this team, like most of you say he did. CC Sabathia carried this team into the playoffs, where was Ben Sheets when all of this happened, in the most critical run to the playoffs for the Brewers in the last decade? Where? DL. Thats where he was, and that is why he is not an ace. By the way, you cannot tell me that Tim Lincecum had any better of a team this year.Now Im sure that all of you will make the excuse that he plays in a weaker division too, but the NL central hasn't always been the greatest either. Obviously Im not going to convince any of you blind people, and thats not what Im trying to do, Im just trying to establish the fact that Ben Sheets is overrated, and unless he can stay healthy will never be an ace.
In 2008 Lincemcum got an average 4.57 per game
I did not find sheet's run support in 2004 but the Brewers only scored 19 runs in Ben Sheets' 14 losses.

WI Sports Fan
11-19-2008, 01:33 PM
When the hell did Ben Sheets have such a good season? His best record was 12-5 and that was in 2007. He's never even won more then 13 games! Give me a break, you want to talk about comical! What's comical is the idea of calling Ben Sheets an ace when he hasn't won more then 13 games, EVER.

I can't believe how much ignorant people overrate wins. Wins are a team stat, not an individual stat. Do you have any idea how many runs Milwaukee scored for Sheets in those 14 losses he had in 2004? 19! 19! They scored 19 ****ing runs in Sheets' 14 losses and you have the audacity to sit there and act as if Ben is to blame for his lack of wins when he was getting 1.3 runs of support per game during those 14 losses.


You people are so fast to throw out stats. Its like the stats equal wins. But at the end of the day, they don't. All Im saying is that Ben Sheets never carried this team, like most of you say he did. CC Sabathia carried this team into the playoffs, where was Ben Sheets when all of this happened, in the most critical run to the playoffs for the Brewers in the last decade? Where? DL. Thats where he was, and that is why he is not an ace. By the way, you cannot tell me that Tim Lincecum had any better of a team this year.Now Im sure that all of you will make the excuse that he plays in a weaker division too, but the NL central hasn't always been the greatest either. Obviously Im not going to convince any of you blind people, and thats not what Im trying to do, Im just trying to establish the fact that Ben Sheets is overrated, and unless he can stay healthy will never be an ace.

One player can't carry a team. That's why it's called a team. Even in basketball, you aren't getting far if you only have 1 player. And we wouldn't have even been in the position to trade for CC and make the playoffs if it weren't for Sheets.

But yeah, "we" are the blind ones. Get a clue.

WI Sports Fan
11-19-2008, 01:35 PM
In 2008 Lincemcum got an average 4.57 per game
I did not find sheet's run support in 2004 but the Brewers only scored 19 runs in Ben Sheets' 14 losses.

You stole my thunder. :mad:

Brooke
11-19-2008, 01:40 PM
Come on Crew, lets keep the name calling at bay here.Its not that I cant comprehend stats, its just that you all are so quick to pull out stats on everything. STATS DONT WIN GAMES. Also the last time we were talking about bright spots on our team fomr back in the day, just about all of you said that Geoff Jenkins was "the only bright spot on oue team." Freak Injuries! How about lack of commitment to the game. How many times had he come into training camp out of shape? Or how about those darn blisters on his fingers that kept him from pitching. FREAKISH! I agree that he does have ace "stuff" but that doesn't make him a legit ace. I will also agree with you that we counted on him as an ace, but that still does not justify him as a true ace. By the way, one good season also doesn't justify anything either.


you know I cant even take any of your posts seriously anymore.

Where do the Brewers go from here if they dont have CC and/or Sheets?

oh and btw he was a big reason the Brewers almost made the playoffs last year before they choked, and then he got hurt and it went downhill. Cuidence I think not

WI Sports Fan
11-19-2008, 01:41 PM
Lets take a look at some of Sheets' 2004 no decisions...

1. 6 IP, 3 ER
2. 8 IP, 2 ER
3. 9 IP, 0 ER
4. 6 IP, 0 ER
5. 7 IP, 1 ER

That's 5 wins he should've and would've received on most other teams.

Brooke
11-19-2008, 01:42 PM
I can't believe how much ignorant people overrate wins. Wins are a team stat, not an individual stat. Do you have any idea how many runs Milwaukee scored for Sheets in those 14 losses he had in 2004? 19! 19! They scored 19 ****ing runs in Sheets' 14 losses and you have the audacity to sit there and act as if Ben is to blame for his lack of wins when he was getting 1.3 runs of support per game during those 14 losses.



One player can't carry a team. That's why it's called a team. Even in basketball, you aren't getting far if you only have 1 player. And we wouldn't have even been in the position to trade for CC and make the playoffs if it weren't for Sheets.

But yeah, "we" are the blind ones. Get a clue.


Thank You :clap:

Brew Crew
11-19-2008, 02:03 PM
Come on Crew, lets keep the name calling at bay here.Its not that I cant comprehend stats, its just that you all are so quick to pull out stats on everything. STATS DONT WIN GAMES. Also the last time we were talking about bright spots on our team fomr back in the day, just about all of you said that Geoff Jenkins was "the only bright spot on oue team." Freak Injuries! How about lack of commitment to the game. How many times had he come into training camp out of shape? Or how about those darn blisters on his fingers that kept him from pitching. FREAKISH! I agree that he does have ace "stuff" but that doesn't make him a legit ace. I will also agree with you that we counted on him as an ace, but that still does not justify him as a true ace. By the way, one good season also doesn't justify anything either.

Jenkins was ONE of the only bright spots on our team. Sheets is definetely up their as well along with Jeremy Burnitz.

You are correct about lack of commitment and I'd always think about that, but what I'm trying to point out is that the late season injury he had just last season was nothing freakish. He worked out more then ever last summer from what I read on the Brewer website, even finding a new angle to throw pitches from. Yes, he was probably doing it because it was his final year, and also is the reason I'm skeptical of the Brewers resigning him. But you can't say he's not an ace just because of his injury at the end of the year.
Everybody argues that Josh Beckett was an ace, but he got more blisters then anybody, and he is still considered an ace because when he is on, he's on.

By the way. I pointed out his BEST season, not his only good season.

Brooke
11-19-2008, 02:28 PM
Everybody argues that Josh Beckett was an ace, but he got more blisters then anybody, and he is still considered an ace because when he is on, he's on.



Excellent example. When Beckett is on like the 07 playoffs he is damn near unhittable. I have seen Sheets when he is on and he can be very hard to hit against

crewfan13
11-19-2008, 06:05 PM
First off I agree with ****** about Jenkins, I was never a big fan of him. I'll admit he hustled in the outfield, but he swung like he was one of the big hitters in the league, and never actually hit like one.

Sheets has done so much for the Brewers, we should resign him. Yes the injuries are frustrating, but which would you rather have?
A.Sheets starting 30 games a year and the Brewers finding a spot starting for the other 4 or 5 starts he misses.
OR
B. The Brewers sign a middle of the line guy (#3-4 starter) who eats up innings and starts 34-35 starts a year but has a fairly high ERA. (keep in mind last time we did that we gave Jeff Suppan a big contract)

I don't know about you, but I'll go with the Sheets option everytime.

favre_4life
11-21-2008, 09:40 AM
I can't believe how much ignorant people overrate wins. Wins are a team stat, not an individual stat. Do you have any idea how many runs Milwaukee scored for Sheets in those 14 losses he had in 2004? 19! 19! They scored 19 ****ing runs in Sheets' 14 losses and you have the audacity to sit there and act as if Ben is to blame for his lack of wins when he was getting 1.3 runs of support per game during those 14 losses.



One player can't carry a team. That's why it's called a team. Even in basketball, you aren't getting far if you only have 1 player. And we wouldn't have even been in the position to trade for CC and make the playoffs if it weren't for Sheets.

But yeah, "we" are the blind ones. Get a clue.

Now Im not sure but, for roughly half the season last year Im pretty sure that CC Sabathia single handedly carried this team, am I wroong about that? Now thats not to say that one player can carry a team, but don't make it sound impossible, when it just happened.

brewersfan729
11-21-2008, 01:08 PM
Now Im not sure but, for roughly half the season last year Im pretty sure that CC Sabathia single handedly carried this team, am I wroong about that? Now thats not to say that one player can carry a team, but don't make it sound impossible, when it just happened.

Unless Sabathia knocked in all the runs that he was getting, he didn't carry the team.

Brooke
11-21-2008, 01:26 PM
Now Im not sure but, for roughly half the season last year Im pretty sure that CC Sabathia single handedly carried this team, am I wroong about that? Now thats not to say that one player can carry a team, but don't make it sound impossible, when it just happened.

and who carried the team all these years and last year when they almost made the playoffs???

CC is a great pitcher but he did get help from the team with giving him some run insurance. Sheets would have won more games if the Brewers gave him more than a 1 run or 2 every time he pitches

brewersfan729
11-21-2008, 02:53 PM
CC is a god with the bat compared to Sheets so he can give his own run support.

Right, but how many games did his bat actually make a difference? The only one I can think of was his second game where he homered against the Reds. We ended up winning 3-2.

Brooke
11-21-2008, 03:35 PM
^^ Yep. CC can smack the ball but when he did hit most of the time it didnt make a difference