PDA

View Full Version : Is Attitude To Blame For The Brewers' Collapse?



CubsGirl
09-19-2008, 12:05 AM
"I take full responsibility for what happened," Torres said. "I wish I could go back and do that over again. I guarantee you I get him out, but it's not possible.
brewers.com

I want to say this completely objectively, because there is no reason for me to bait, but I think immaturity and attitude could possibly play a large part in your Septembers both this year and last year.

Here's an example. Yesterday I played my first fastpitch game, and while I was sitting out, one girl kept coming up to me talking about how the other team looked so ghetto, and they were such fat girls that were so ugly. Finally, I turned to her and said, "That fatass ghetto team is kicking our *** 8-1." I feel like our attitude was a pretty detrimental factor in our loss. (didn't help that we were playing against Amanda Williams, ASU's next ace before she was kicked off the team for having around a 1.0)

Like I said before, I don't want to bait here - it would be pointless to start a fight when I genuinely want opinions. But when I apply my personal experience to the attitude of your team (an attitude they have mainly because they're all so young, I think 75% of your 25-man is under 30, and I know that besides three guys, your entire roster is under 35. edit - 21 of your current 36 players are under 30, but I don't know how many of those guys were on the "original" 25-man. I also don't think relievers provide TOO much "veteran leadership", but 5 of your 15 over 30 players are in the BP.)), I think that it might be a big factor in why you guys have collapsed out of the division the last two Septembers.

brewersfan729
09-19-2008, 12:22 AM
I think they're just choking. Every single hitter with the exception of Fielder lately has been brutal this month. Hard to win games when your team is scoring less than three runs on average for two weeks.

CubsGirl
09-19-2008, 12:25 AM
I think they're just choking. Every single hitter with the exception of Fielder lately has been brutal this month. Hard to win games when your team is scoring less than three runs on average for two weeks.
They are definitely on a cold streak, but I do wonder if it's because of attitude. Torres (who is actually kind of old, so I assume he's just immature) and Braun have made some pretty cocky remarks, which could lead to overconfidence, especially since Braun seems like the leader of this young team, partially because he's so outspoken.

He could make a great leader later on with some veteran mentoring on how to really motivate the team, but if he really is the leader right now, if a majority of the team shares his attitude, I can see how it can lead to a "choke." When you get overconfident, you don't try as much as you usually would.

brewersfan729
09-19-2008, 12:44 AM
Braun's always been confident. That's not something new. Hart has sucked since the all-star break, Weeks has pretty much sucked all year, Braun got hurt and has sucked since, Fielder had a long stretch of sucking, Branyan got hurt and Counsell and Hall have sucked, Kendall sucks offensively, Cameron got hot for a while but has gone back to sucking.

I just think the team got on a cold streak on offense at the worst possible time and the pitching wasn't able to hold them up. The positive is that they've actually looked a lot better in the last two games than they did this month. Even in the wins before yesterday they looked awful winning 1-0, 3-2 and 4-3. They averaged only 2.71 runs per game before this series. Yost continued to make awful decisions while making the team feel pressure in the clubhouse. The demeanor on the field and in the dugout since Sveum took over has been night and day.

It also doesn't help that Sheets has been seriously overworked this year (injuries the past three years and then a 50 inning jump this year is not a good thing), then finding out that his elbow has been bothering him since late August but Yost let him pitch 120 and 113 pitches his next two starts.

This is also the most innings Parra has ever pitched and it's clear he's wearing down. That's why I thought it was stupid to have him start the year here. Control his innings in the minors and then bring him up.

It's a bunch of things. Yost, stupid pitching decisions, horribly flawed offense. It has nothing to do with attitude or overconfidence though.

CubsGirl
09-19-2008, 12:56 AM
Braun's always been confident. That's not something new. Hart has sucked since the all-star break, Weeks has pretty much sucked all year, Braun got hurt and has sucked since, Fielder had a long stretch of sucking, Branyan got hurt and Counsell and Hall have sucked, Kendall sucks offensively, Cameron got hot for a while but has gone back to sucking.
I believe that, and I don't think at all that it's a bad thing, but when you're younger, confidence typically comes from cockiness. I think he's even said that he's cocky. When you get older and understand both life and the game a little better, confidence can drive the team a whole lot better. That's the only reason that I think that attitude is part of the problem. Otherwise, I would completely agree that it's just a poorly timed cold streak.



It also doesn't help that Sheets has been seriously overworked this year (injuries the past three years and then a 50 inning jump this year is not a good thing), then finding out that his elbow has been bothering him since late August but Yost let him pitch 120 and 113 pitches his next two starts.

This is also the most innings Parra has ever pitched and it's clear he's wearing down. That's why I thought it was stupid to have him start the year here. Control his innings in the minors and then bring him up.

It's a bunch of things. Yost, stupid pitching decisions, horribly flawed offense. It has nothing to do with attitude or overconfidence though.
Yeah, I honestly hope that Yost didn't wear down your pitchers. Sheets, C.C., etc. are GREAT, and opposing team or not, I would hate to see a great pitcher get injured because of overuse (been there, done that, blech.)

CubsGirl
09-19-2008, 01:04 AM
:puke:

I would throw in the towel if the Cubs had the good versions of Wood and Prior going with Zambrano.
I try (and usually succeed), not to think about it too much, but COULD YOU IMAGINE? Argh.

CubsGirl
09-19-2008, 01:09 AM
I can thank Baylor and Baker for the fact I don't have to watch that.
And he's already potentially ruined Harang.

Dusty Baker: Annihilating NL Central Pitching, One-by-One

brewersfan729
09-19-2008, 01:11 AM
I know most people probably don't want to think about it, but if the Brewers and Cubs combined they would have an absolutely insane team. With the way the Brewers develop hitters and the Cubs develop pitchers we could actually help each other end playoff/World Series droughts. :)

brewersfan729
09-19-2008, 01:13 AM
And he's already potentially ruined Harang.

Dusty Baker: Annihilating NL Central Pitching, One-by-One

Don't forget about Volquez and Cueto. Each of them are in the top 25 in pitcher abuse points. Not exactly a great way to introduce young pitchers to the big leagues.

viktor06
09-19-2008, 05:23 AM
Why is Torres being blamed? Braun shouldve ended the game, but he didnt charge the ball and missed the catch. That was a clear error

rcal10
09-19-2008, 10:49 AM
Why is Torres being blamed? Braun shouldve ended the game, but he didnt charge the ball and missed the catch. That was a clear error

But Braun doesn't have an error all year, STILL! I am not sure he could have or would have caught that ball, but at best it shoudl have been a single. Now, how can't you blame Torres? There was not another ball that "should have" been caught. Bottom line is Torres did not get the job done. Soto crushed the ball to tie the game. Even if Braun clearly missed a ball he should have caught, Torres has 3 more chances to get the last out and could not do it.

Brew Crew
09-19-2008, 11:25 AM
But Braun doesn't have an error all year, STILL! I am not sure he could have or would have caught that ball, but at best it shoudl have been a single. Now, how can't you blame Torres? There was not another ball that "should have" been caught. Bottom line is Torres did not get the job done. Soto crushed the ball to tie the game. Even if Braun clearly missed a ball he should have caught, Torres has 3 more chances to get the last out and could not do it.

Correct. How in the hell do you blame a left fielder for a game that CLEARLY should have been over. There is no excuse in the world that lets off a closer for blowing a 4 run lead with 2 out and no one on.

What a ridiculous season.

CubsGirl
09-19-2008, 11:59 AM
Why is Torres being blamed? Braun shouldve ended the game, but he didnt charge the ball and missed the catch. That was a clear error
I'm not blaming him for the loss per se, I'm just wondering if his attitude, Braun's attitude, and the attitude in general players is detrimental to the team being able to pull everything together.

Usually I think "veteran presence" is overrated, but I do think that maybe the Brewers could use an older guy who can give the team some leadership. When Maddux was on the Cubs, a lot of guys talked with him, picked his brain, whatever, and he helped turn Lee and Dempster into two really great team leaders.

I mean seriously, who's going to be their veteran "mentor" right now? Gagne? No one wants to take advice from that sack of crap.

Brooke
09-19-2008, 12:51 PM
Why is Torres being blamed? Braun shouldve ended the game, but he didnt charge the ball and missed the catch. That was a clear error

Braun shouldnt be completely blamed here. If they would have taken advantage having the bases loaded at least twice instead of only scoring 1 run in the first inning, if Bush would have scored on that Durham double we might have not been in that situation. It doesnt help that Torres cant go a week w/out blowing a save

viktor06
09-19-2008, 01:19 PM
I agree with all said, that Torres shouldnt have let those runners and the HR anyway, but it surely didnt help his psychic that Braun botched it...noted by the fact that he fell apart completely.

Its the little things you know, your bullpen isnt having a great season, dont make errors to make it worse for them.

But you are right, all of the things mentioned contributed

Cub_StuckinSTL
09-19-2008, 01:19 PM
Braun shouldnt be completely blamed here. If they would have taken advantage having the bases loaded at least twice instead of only scoring 1 run in the first inning, if Bush would have scored on that Durham double we might have not been in that situation. It doesnt help that Torres cant go a week w/out blowing a save

Am I wrong here? If ur up by 4 then its not a save opportunity right?

viktor06
09-19-2008, 01:19 PM
Am I wrong here? If ur up by 4 then its not a save opportunity right?

You are right

Brooke
09-19-2008, 01:33 PM
Am I wrong here? If ur up by 4 then its not a save opportunity right?

Yeah basically but still when you have a 4 run lead you shouldnt blow it like yesterday

Dcup
09-19-2008, 01:54 PM
Why is Torres being blamed? Braun shouldve ended the game, but he didnt charge the ball and missed the catch. That was a clear error

Letting a ball drop in front of you for a single does not constitute an error. I think all of this is lack of EVERYTHING.

Hart has sucked since the all-star break, Weeks has pretty much sucked all year, Braun got hurt and has sucked since, Fielder had a long stretch of sucking, Branyan got hurt and Counsell and Hall have sucked, Kendall sucks offensively, Cameron got hot for a while but has gone back to sucking.

...Makes you wonder if Braun is 100% healthy (I do not think so). Branyan, Counsell and Hall are all the same player. Cameron and Kendall are the VETERANS that we need to be leaders, but when do they speak up? Offense isnt everything, but it damn sure helps win games. I think this team needs a major face lift, one that may take them out of contention for a couple of years. ALMOST making the playoffs 2 years in a row is worse than not coming close 2 years in a row IMO.

Brooke
09-19-2008, 02:05 PM
Makes you wonder if Braun is 100% healthy (I do not think so)

I have been wondering the same thing for awhile. Braun has struggled before but not this long and this bad. If they want to make any run at the playoffs both him and Prince need to be hot, they need their two main power hitters. Everyone has basically sucked except JJ(he has pretty consistent this year even though he has had his droughts. There is a reason he is batting behind Prince.)

OnWisconsin2007
09-19-2008, 02:10 PM
Why does everything come back to Braun? Either he's cocky, or he's no good at defense; it's just Cubs fans trying to bash him, like usual. It's so annoying and it's ****ing sickening.

And the attitude is a problem, for sure, Yost was leading the team, what would anybody expect? We need a veteran in there, not some idiot along the lines of Yost.

CubsGirl
09-19-2008, 02:33 PM
Why does everything come back to Braun? Either he's cocky, or he's no good at defense; it's just Cubs fans trying to bash him, like usual. It's so annoying and it's ****ing sickening.

And the attitude is a problem, for sure, Yost was leading the team, what would anybody expect? We need a veteran in there, not some idiot along the lines of Yost.
You act like I give enough of a damn to even want to bash him. I don't.

He's just cocky, that's a fact. So was Torres.

OC Knights #11
09-19-2008, 03:41 PM
This team is screwed in the future. They drafted players that only hit the home runs. We have more home runs then a lot of teams, but that doesn't mean were a good offensive team, because were not. We are terrible at scoring runners in scoring position. We don't know how to manufacture runs either. None of our young players no how to do that. I don't remember his name but the guy that drafts our players in to our system, that guy is to blame for this. He's over-rated, he drafted the same type of player, like 6 times.

-Trade Fielder, he *****es to much, and he is turning into the black Adam Dunn
-Trade Rickie, please someone just give up on this kid, he is not what he was suppose to be, he proally was brought up to early, his avg is done right pathetic, and we have escobar coming up, so **** weeks.
-Were pretty much stuck with Hall for another 2 years, Melvin's fault for signing this guy when he had only one good season. One Hit Wonder!!!
-Sign Hart to an extension, I know he has been terrible this september, but this experience, he looks like he needs a month off from baseball, he will be fine next year.
-Gotta get some more pitching, Starting and Relief, We need help MAJORLY in pitching. I can't even explain how much we need pitching. CC and Ben will be gone.
-Carlos V will not be a starting pitcher, keep in the bull pen.
-Gange and Mota should be gone.
-Get a manager that has playoff experience. Not a guy from the brewers system who has been apart of the losing, and not an 82' brewer! They are terrible managers, theres a big difference between player and manager.

CubsGirl
09-19-2008, 04:09 PM
^The home runs thing isn't as much of a problem as you'd think if you bring in a good hitting coach. In 2006 we ONLY swung for the long ball. Then Lou brought in Gerald Perry and even the players who were here in 2006 are just completely different.

But with all the valuable talent you have, it might not be a bad time to re-sign Sheets and keep Braun, and then trade away as much as possible and rebuild around them.

OnWisconsin2007
09-19-2008, 04:31 PM
Why would we trade away our players? That's stupid. First off, we already have Braun for 8 years. Second, JJ and Hart will be around for years to come. Next, we'll bring Escobar up from AAA and move JJ so Alcides can play short. Escobar is a Reyes-esque type player, but he already has gold glove caliber defense and is extremely fast. He'll be the perfect lead off man. Gamel will be starting the year after next, at latest. Gallardo, Parra, Villanueva, McClung, we can build around those guys. We'll have plenty of young talent in the minors ready to come up. We'll dump contracts and pick up some good free agent, hopefully. Rebuilding is just a ridiculous thought for the Brewers organization.

CubsGirl
09-19-2008, 04:59 PM
Why would we trade away our players? That's stupid. First off, we already have Braun for 8 years. Second, JJ and Hart will be around for years to come. Next, we'll bring Escobar up from AAA and move JJ so Alcides can play short. Escobar is a Reyes-esque type player, but he already has gold glove caliber defense and is extremely fast. He'll be the perfect lead off man. Gamel will be starting the year after next, at latest. Gallardo, Parra, Villanueva, McClung, we can build around those guys. We'll have plenty of young talent in the minors ready to come up. We'll dump contracts and pick up some good free agent, hopefully. Rebuilding is just a ridiculous thought for the Brewers organization.
Not really. I think OC Knight did a great job of detailing the fact that as a team right now, the pieces just aren't fitting together.

OnWisconsin2007
09-19-2008, 05:05 PM
********.

If we had someone to manage this team effectively, we'd be great. We went into September 4 games up in the WC. 1 bad month and we're ****ed. We need to cut some ties with players, (weak, gagme, kameron, hall, yost (already done, obviously). I'd keep Fielder, Hardy, Braun, Hart, bring up Escobar (he's more than ready), and possibly bolster the other spots with some free agents or maybe a trade or two. The team is going to be good next year, IMO we're a few crucial pieces away from winning it all. Hell, this year we were obviously good enough to go to the playoffs, although Yost let the team fall apart.

OC Knights #11
09-19-2008, 05:35 PM
********.

If we had someone to manage this team effectively, we'd be great. We went into September 4 games up in the WC. 1 bad month and we're ****ed. We need to cut some ties with players, (weak, gagme, kameron, hall, yost (already done, obviously). I'd keep Fielder, Hardy, Braun, Hart, bring up Escobar (he's more than ready), and possibly bolster the other spots with some free agents or maybe a trade or two. The team is going to be good next year, IMO we're a few crucial pieces away from winning it all. Hell, this year we were obviously good enough to go to the playoffs, although Yost let the team fall apart.

thats what we said last year and the year before.

Yost didn't let the team fall apart. Yes, he was terrible at most times. And i am glad he is gone but most of the blame should go on the players.

I am not saying we need to rebuild, i never said that. We have Gamel comeing up, so why not trade Fielder for some pitching??? We already choose who we wanted, and its braun.

OnWisconsin2007
09-19-2008, 05:36 PM
We traded our future all star 1B this season though....

Brooke
09-19-2008, 06:51 PM
I dont have as much as confidence as you do about them being good next year. I am getting a little tired of the Sheets injury crap but with him and CC gone that leaves a big gap in the rotation, and we need a ace like pitcher in that rotation

ok I dont like Yost as much as the next person but he isnt entirely to blame for this team falling apart again.

Dcup
09-19-2008, 07:15 PM
thats what we said last year and the year before.

Yost didn't let the team fall apart. Yes, he was terrible at most times. And i am glad he is gone but most of the blame should go on the players.

I am not saying we need to rebuild, i never said that. We have Gamel comeing up, so why not trade Fielder for some pitching??? We already choose who we wanted, and its braun.

I totally agree with this statement. I think Fielder isnt what everyone thinks he is. Someone in here said it best when they said he is a black Adam Dunn...I'm pretty sure that refers to SO or HR; again I would most definetly have to agree with that statement. And BTW, JJ will not be moving in favor of Escobar next year if he gets called up. Escobar will play 2nd and Rickie will be gone, gone, gone.

OC Knights #11
09-19-2008, 11:36 PM
I totally agree with this statement. I think Fielder isnt what everyone thinks he is. Someone in here said it best when they said he is a black Adam Dunn...I'm pretty sure that refers to SO or HR; again I would most definetly have to agree with that statement. And BTW, JJ will not be moving in favor of Escobar next year if he gets called up. Escobar will play 2nd and Rickie will be gone, gone, gone.

that was me as well.

McNam003
09-20-2008, 03:51 AM
there not gonna put escobar into a new position his rookie year, he is a whiz at ss and you wouldnt wanna mess with that.

brewersfan729
09-20-2008, 04:09 AM
And BTW, JJ will not be moving in favor of Escobar next year if he gets called up. Escobar will play 2nd and Rickie will be gone, gone, gone.

Wrong. Escobar will be playing SS. Either Hardy is moving to 3rd, 2nd or he's getting traded.

Dcup
09-20-2008, 10:30 AM
Wrong. Escobar will be playing SS. Either Hardy is moving to 3rd, 2nd or he's getting traded.

Let me ask you something...unless JJ gets traded he will be the starting SS next year. Why? Because you dont take a guy from AA and plug him into the starting lineup when the guy has 20 errors in AA. Do you think its going to be easier to field the ball in the Majors? I sure dont think so.

McNam003
09-20-2008, 10:40 AM
Let me ask you something...unless JJ gets traded he will be the starting SS next year. Why? Because you dont take a guy from AA and plug him into the starting lineup when the guy has 20 errors in AA. Do you think its going to be easier to field the ball in the Majors? I sure dont think so.

first, the kid is supposed to be BETTER than JJ in the field, secondly I don't have the exact stats but i would go on a limb and say Brauny was around 20 errors the year before he got brought up...

Ryan Braun had 34 errors in 2006

Brew Crew
09-20-2008, 10:44 AM
Let me ask you something...unless JJ gets traded he will be the starting SS next year. Why? Because you dont take a guy from AA and plug him into the starting lineup when the guy has 20 errors in AA. Do you think its going to be easier to field the ball in the Majors? I sure dont think so.

Let me tell you something. When you got a guy with better defense then JJ Hardy in the minors, and someone who could be compared to that of Jose Reyes, you definetely move JJ "I won't ever dive for a ball" Hardy. This is long-term for the Brewers, so it's no Bill Hall move.

Would you like some proof?


The 21-year-old Escobar hit .328/.363/.434 with 34 steals for Huntsville, sending his stock soaring. No one has ever questioned his glove at shortstop, and if he can maintain even a modest average, he should be a quality major league regular. He might get a couple of starts if the Brewers can clinch early.


If Escobar keeps hitting, perhaps the Brewers could choose to make J.J. Hardy available in July or in the offseason. They do need to improve their infield defense, and while Hardy is actually their strongest link right now, he lacks Escobar's range.

Brooke
09-20-2008, 11:54 AM
supposedly being better than JJ than actually being better are completely different. I would go with the guy I know I can trust offensively and defensively.

Brew Crew
09-20-2008, 02:12 PM
But how can you trust Hardy when he is so damn streaky. I bet anything if switched Hardy's mediocre first half with the second half we'd all be saying trade him away.

Yes you can trust him for the most part, but I would rather have the Brewers bring Escobar in at SS where he is "supposed" to be good, and then have Hardy move Hall or Weeks out.

I would rather have Hardy, who is fundamentally sound, try out a new position on the major league club rather then a guy we aren't so sure of switching around positions when he hasn't mastered the one he's currently playing at like JJ has at short.

brewersfan729
09-20-2008, 03:52 PM
Let me ask you something...unless JJ gets traded he will be the starting SS next year. Why?

Because Escobar will still be in the minors.


Because you dont take a guy from AA and plug him into the starting lineup when the guy has 20 errors in AA.

Errors mean nothing. Hardy couldn't dream of having the range Escobar has which means Hardy gets to less balls. So if Escobar gets to a ball that Hardy couldn't and makes the play 9 out of 10 times he's going to have one error that Hardy wouldn't have.


Do you think its going to be easier to field the ball in the Majors?

Yes. The fields are much better in the majors, less bad hops, maintained better etc.

Dcup
09-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Because Escobar will still be in the minors.



Errors mean nothing. Hardy couldn't dream of having the range Escobar has which means Hardy gets to less balls. So if Escobar gets to a ball that Hardy couldn't and makes the play 9 out of 10 times he's going to have one error that Hardy wouldn't have.



Yes. The fields are much better in the majors, less bad hops, maintained better etc.

He may be in the minors but that doesnt really matter at this point. Errors mean nothing? Im pretty sure that errors are a vital statistic in Gold Glove awards. Throwing errors are far different that fielding errors. Say Escobar gets to the ball and fields it clean, he throws it wide of first base thats going to result in two bases. SO if he doesnt get to the ball its a single. Two bases or one? Then, if there are runners on base you have to take that into consideration also. Range is a good attribute if you can make the WHOLE play. Regardless of the field conditions, bad hops are not considered errors in the official scorebook. The ball also comes off the bat harder at the major league level. For the sake of not arguing about something none of us control, SOMEONE will be playing SS for the Brewers next year. Right?

Brooke
09-22-2008, 01:36 PM
The only way Escobar is up in the majors is if they become stupid and trade JJ Hardy.

well they always seem to be stupid so nothing they might do wouldnt surpsie me. I still think it is dumb to trade him, get rid of Weeks or Hall instead and move JJ to 2nd or 3rd

brewersfan729
09-22-2008, 03:34 PM
Errors mean nothing?

Pretty much.


Im pretty sure that errors are a vital statistic in Gold Glove awards.

:laugh:

Yeah, let's use the Gold Glove award to help your argument. The same Gold Glove award that Rafael Palmeiro won in 1999 when he played 135 games as a DH. The Gold Glove award rarely goes to the best defender. It usually goes to a good offensive player that's popular and doesn't completely suck on defense.


Throwing errors are far different that fielding errors. Say Escobar gets to the ball and fields it clean, he throws it wide of first base thats going to result in two bases. SO if he doesnt get to the ball its a single. Two bases or one?

Chance to make an out or no chance? You make it sound like he makes an error every single play. He's going to make those plays 95% of the time. I'll take those errors if he saves a bunch of other hits with his glove, which he does.


Regardless of the field conditions, bad hops are not considered errors in the official scorebook.

There are some terrible official scorers in the minors. If a ball takes a bad hop and hits your glove, it's likely going to be an error. It's not like the majors where they'll play favorites and give the hometown player a hit when it should've been an error, or they go to the official scorer after the game and ask them to change it from an error to a hit.


The ball also comes off the bat harder at the major league level.

Says who? If it's hit on the sweet spot then it's hit just as hard as a major league hitter.


SOMEONE will be playing SS for the Brewers next year. Right?

No I think they're going to go with three infielders and then take another outfielder, just like softball except in softball they have four infielders.

I'll just make this one last point, since it's really all we have to go by from those who have never had the pleasure of watching Escobar play defense.

Hardy:

Fielding percentage in AA - .970
Range Factor - 4.52

Escobar:

Fielding percentage in AA - .971
Range Factor - 5.28

Escobar's scouting report:


Yet another infield prospect is making his way up the Brewers ladder. Escobar has excellent speed and is a tremendous defensive shortstop with a strong plus arm and superb range. His bat has begun to catch up to his glove as he develops into a pretty good contact hitter who uses his speed to his advantage. He has the ability to steal bases, but still needs to learn the nuances of that craft.

zookerman182
09-22-2008, 04:30 PM
Pretty much.



:laugh:

Yeah, let's use the Gold Glove award to help your argument. The same Gold Glove award that Rafael Palmeiro won in 1999 when he played 135 games as a DH. The Gold Glove award rarely goes to the best defender. It usually goes to a good offensive player that's popular and doesn't completely suck on defense.



Chance to make an out or no chance? You make it sound like he makes an error every single play. He's going to make those plays 95% of the time. I'll take those errors if he saves a bunch of other hits with his glove, which he does.



There are some terrible official scorers in the minors. If a ball takes a bad hop and hits your glove, it's likely going to be an error. It's not like the majors where they'll play favorites and give the hometown player a hit when it should've been an error, or they go to the official scorer after the game and ask them to change it from an error to a hit.



Says who? If it's hit on the sweet spot then it's hit just as hard as a major league hitter.



No I think they're going to go with three infielders and then take another outfielder, just like softball except in softball they have four infielders.

I'll just make this one last point, since it's really all we have to go by from those who have never had the pleasure of watching Escobar play defense.

Hardy:

Fielding percentage in AA - .970
Range Factor - 4.52

Escobar:

Fielding percentage in AA - .971
Range Factor - 5.28

Escobar's scouting report:


finally someone who loves escobar almost as much as i do. He will be the brewers starting ss going into next season i guarantee it.

Martz
09-22-2008, 06:59 PM
I know this much...when Prince Fielder goes "yeah well it's just a loss. We can't get too worked up about it. We have another game tomorrow." that said after they just got swept by the phillies ticked me off. It's ok to try to stay calm and collective...but that doesn't mean you throw urgency out the window.

You have to know when your choking. Braun did. Why doesn't Fielder. Couse i'm not sure Fielder is driven by team goals and wins. He's driven more to prove he's better then his father and that he's gonna get paid in the offseason....

Brooke
09-22-2008, 07:08 PM
I know this much...when Prince Fielder goes "yeah well it's just a loss. We can't get too worked up about it. We have another game tomorrow." that said after they just got swept by the phillies ticked me off. It's ok to try to stay calm and collective...but that doesn't mean you throw urgency out the window.

You have to know when your choking. Braun did. Why doesn't Fielder. Couse i'm not sure Fielder is driven by team goals and wins. He's driven more to prove he's better then his father and that he's gonna get paid in the offseason....

and that is my main problem with him, when you are considered a leader you dont say stuff like this

zookerman182
09-23-2008, 05:36 AM
When you are underpaid by ALOT. unfortunately things are different. Who cares if he wants to be better than his dad or not? If he is going to hit 40+ hr per season at his age then we need him on this team. I dont think you guys will realize what a great player we have until hes gone. Even if he doesnt say what you think he should say after we got swept by the phillies. He is a leader on this team. Because this team has no one person as it's leader. Give him the money he deserves, throw him back out at first base next season and let him hit his 40 hr. Because there are only a couple players in the bigs capable of that.