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View Full Version : The National Debt and the Result of it.



PUGS1688
08-28-2008, 07:00 PM
I'll be honest with all of you, there are tons of things in our lifetime that really worries me. But nothing has got me as nervous and scared about our country more then the Nation Debt. I believe the current amount of debt our government is over $9,000,000,000,000. That is 9 TRILLION dollars in debt.

Our government's irresponsibility to fix the problem really worries me. Also noting that I have never heard either of the two 'popular' candidates running for president even address the issue.

When individuals get into major debt problems because they want to go out and buy the new $600 iPhone, or the $600 PS3, or a new 30 foot flatscreen TV that plays in HD, after some time they go backrupt, and have their lives almost ruined. Credit is destroyed, and the opportunity to live a normal life goes out the window with it.

If your not familiar with the movie I.O.U.S.A that is coming out soon, please watch the trailer... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBo2xQIWHiM

Does anyone know what the possible outcome to this situation is going to be? I can only think of 3 things...

-Government goes bankrupt, and this country, along with it's people not only slip into a depression but become a 3rd world country.
-The Government doesn't pay back China, or any other of the countries that it owes money to, and a conflict erupts...

And here is the really drawn out conclusion...

We all have heard the rumors about the NWO, or one world government. We all know about the North American Union. We've all heard the rumors.

No matter what anyone says, I truely believe our politians are really smart. They have to know what they are doing when they are doing it. They go to the best American Schools in the nation, there is no way they can not know the outcomes of such events. Is this debt issue not bothering them because of some future plan witch involves the NWO?

I really want to hear what everyone has to say about this. I'm 20 years old, and in 40 years when I retire, I do not want to have lived through the worst periods of history.

SmthBluCitrus
08-28-2008, 07:20 PM
You've already begun to interject conspiracy into your argument. And, I hate to break it to you, it's not going to fly. Soon your talk of the NWO will merge into the WTO and NAFTA Superhighways.

Debt isn't a bad thing. Granted, the debt that we have is monsterous and we need to get it (and keep it) in check. But, running a national debt spurs the economy to continue and sustain growth

PUGS1688
08-28-2008, 07:28 PM
But the question is how do we even get out of this kind of debt? And if it continues to get worse, what are the reprocustions?

SmthBluCitrus
08-28-2008, 07:36 PM
The easy answer is taxes.

The biggest concern is the devaluation of the dollar, but considering the world operates on the dollar, it would cause global hyperinflation. And, that's just not likely to happen.

ari1013
08-28-2008, 10:12 PM
You've already begun to interject conspiracy into your argument. And, I hate to break it to you, it's not going to fly. Soon your talk of the NWO will merge into the WTO and NAFTA Superhighways.

Debt isn't a bad thing. Granted, the debt that we have is monsterous and we need to get it (and keep it) in check. But, running a national debt spurs the economy to continue and sustain growth
Running a temporary deficit can do that. But holding a large debt can choke economic development -- just look at what happened to Japan when their debt caught up with them.

ari1013
08-28-2008, 10:12 PM
The easy answer is taxes.

The biggest concern is the devaluation of the dollar, but considering the world operates on the dollar, it would cause global hyperinflation. And, that's just not likely to happen.
Except that the world is starting to switch over to the Euro. That's part of the reason oil prices were out of control over the last few months.

SmthBluCitrus
08-28-2008, 10:27 PM
Running a temporary deficit can do that. But holding a large debt can choke economic development -- just look at what happened to Japan when their debt caught up with them.

Granted ... I was just making the argument for why debt can work. What we have currently is extreme.

PUGS1688
08-28-2008, 10:43 PM
Granted ... I was just making the argument for why debt can work. What we have currently is extreme.

It's beyond extreme, it's out of control.

hoosiercubsfan
08-28-2008, 11:35 PM
When individuals get into major debt problems because they want to go out and buy the new $600 iPhone, or the $600 PS3, or a new 30 foot flatscreen TV that plays in HD, after some time they go backrupt, and have their lives almost ruined. Credit is destroyed, and the opportunity to live a normal life goes out the window with it.

If your not familiar with the movie I.O.U.S.A that is coming out soon, please watch the trailer... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBo2xQIWHiM

You are pretty much dead wrong on the affects of bankruptcy on the individual. Granted I'm sure you don't care but I will set you straight anyhow. After a bankruptcy is discharged meaning it has run its course and the case is closed it takes about 2 years to get your credit up and running again. Within 2 years you are able to get a mortgage, car loan, and pretty much anything else you would want to do. They are not seen with the distaste that they where several years ago. Now you can argue the merits of if that is good or bad.

ari1013
08-29-2008, 08:23 AM
You are pretty much dead wrong on the affects of bankruptcy on the individual. Granted I'm sure you don't care but I will set you straight anyhow. After a bankruptcy is discharged meaning it has run its course and the case is closed it takes about 2 years to get your credit up and running again. Within 2 years you are able to get a mortgage, car loan, and pretty much anything else you would want to do. They are not seen with the distaste that they where several years ago. Now you can argue the merits of if that is good or bad.
I thought it was 7 years. But I don't know much about finance, just economics.

sboyajian
08-29-2008, 08:42 AM
IIRC, the interest on the debt is this nations #2 or #3 largest expense.

He is right that a BK doesn't hurt you much after 2 years.. in fact some lenders will lend to you right away.. you have no others bills, you are less of a risk.

7 is when it will fall off your report, most negative items don't hurt as much after 2 years (lates, charge offs, etc).

PUGS1688
08-29-2008, 09:15 AM
I was always told that it was 7 years. Either way, bankruptcy is not something anyone should be willing to "accept."

ari1013
08-29-2008, 11:33 AM
IIRC, the interest on the debt is this nations #2 or #3 largest expense.

He is right that a BK doesn't hurt you much after 2 years.. in fact some lenders will lend to you right away.. you have no others bills, you are less of a risk.

7 is when it will fall off your report, most negative items don't hurt as much after 2 years (lates, charge offs, etc).
Thanks.

PHX-SOXFAN
08-29-2008, 11:55 AM
I thought it was 7 years. But I don't know much about finance, just economics.

It's 2-3 years for an FHA mortgage after a foreclosure. standard mortgages from other sources are going to be more than that. Car loans, credit cards, etc. are all discretionary on the part of the lender.

WES445
09-01-2008, 01:22 PM
Wow. It is amazing how posters feels it is ok for america to be this far in debt. This debt effect the abilities of this country to be a superpower and influence world affairs. I know people who have tanked, losed homes, cars and sense of worth. On a national level, social services can be cut, police force reduce etc, etc. If the euro becomes the world standard that wil be a big blow to us. Look how we suck up to China, every adminstration since the Reagen the chinese have been stealing national secerts, infringing on copyrights even forced a topsercet spy air force aircraft down and then sended back the plane in pieces. Do you think Ike, JFK, Goldwater, Nixon would then back China in getting the Olympic games( in which they were caught cheating ) after all the things? Oh Hell No. When the Russians forced Gray Powers down in his spy plane in the late 50s, the cold war peaked to a new level of chill. The strugggle was on. Now we go to China's opening night on the world stage. The debt we have with them silence our protest. If it wasn't the debt that cause this, what did?
Some posters think JFK had a fail adminstration over the Cuban Missile Conflict, what will your children think about the Clintons, Bushs and Reagen who got us in this situation? We are going to have a "How did this happen moment?" when this crap hit the fan.

Sabres39
09-01-2008, 01:48 PM
Wow. It is amazing how posters feels it is ok for america to be this far in debt. This debt effect the abilities of this country to be a superpower and influence world affairs. I know people who have tanked, losed homes, cars and sense of worth. On a national level, social services can be cut, police force reduce etc, etc. If the euro becomes the world standard that wil be a big blow to us. Look how we suck up to China, every adminstration since the Reagen the chinese have been stealing national secerts, infringing on copyrights even forced a topsercet spy air force aircraft down and then sended back the plane in pieces. Do you think Ike, JFK, Goldwater, Nixon would then back China in getting the Olympic games( in which they were caught cheating ) after all the things? Oh Hell No. When the Russians forced Gray Powers down in his spy plane in the late 50s, the cold war peaked to a new level of chill. The strugggle was on. Now we go to China's opening night on the world stage. The debt we have with them silence our protest. If it wasn't the debt that cause this, what did?
Some posters think JFK had a fail adminstration over the Cuban Missile Conflict, what will your children think about the Clintons, Bushs and Reagen who got us in this situation? We are going to have a "How did this happen moment?" when this crap hit the fan.

Actually, under the Clinton Administration, we were spending around what we were bringing in, and maybe even lowered it a bit. Under Reagan, Bush41 and Bush43, the National Debt has grown exponentially. (http://zfacts.com/p/318.html)

WES445
09-01-2008, 01:52 PM
I am going to get off the China thing, most posters are probably sick of my rant on them. Sorry I was brought up during Ike, Goldwater, Kennedy and Nixon time and this was instill in me by them. They arn't our friends and their raise will come at our expense. There can only be one top dog.
Look how we can't recover fast from disasters. The world trade buildings and New Orleans are still a messed. Where is the funding to bounce back fast from these things? God forbid if California have the big one. How does this effect the national psyche? That can do mentality? Ask any old fart if he/she feels america is as great as it was in their youth? Debt is a chain that can drag you down. National debt is a death sentence to our world standing. In the sixties, america had the major influences in africa, now it's the chinese. Why because we are in debt and they have a surplus of bucks (america's dollars). Now, tell me again how this debt isn't something to worry about.

WES445
09-01-2008, 02:02 PM
Actually, under the Clinton Administration, we were spending around what we were bringing in, and maybe even lowered it a bit. Under Reagan, Bush41 and Bush43, the National Debt has grown exponentially. (http://zfacts.com/p/318.html)

I was talking about him being buddies with the Chinese, while they stole from us. This idea that they are our friend. The debt to China comes out of this idea. This old fart is just amaze how now they are our friends and loan shark. I am not saying that they are a superpower on some of the levels we are on, but their potenial is bigger now to overtake us in the future. Think in terms of influence, industrial base, middle class growth. They didn't have a middle class in the 60s, 70s. Now 60 minutes, C-span and othes are reporting their growth at the same time we having people falling out of the middle class. Reversal of fortune. We can't afford a massive debt in this environment. We need room to move and flex our muscle. I won't even talk about how our weakness is causing russia to flex it's muscle. Their influence in Europe is connected to their resources that include oil. Our raise to power was connected to out producing others, which cause the raise of the middle class. The Chinese are very good students.