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View Full Version : Do you want CC Sabathia?



jwdaly07
07-05-2008, 06:15 PM
Yes or no? I've gone back and forth but personally have come to the conclusion that no, I would not want this trade done. I'd prefer to keep LaPorta.

I won't be upset if we get CC but if it was my choice I would not do it. We are already kicking *** right now, dominating since May 20th. I say take our chances without Sabathia and see if we can keep this up. And keep our best prospect.

BADizzleBoY
07-05-2008, 06:16 PM
you guys are the frontrunners to get him for the most part.

spazzmccrory
07-05-2008, 07:23 PM
C.C. will ensure a playoff series win a belive. So I vote yes

Martz
07-05-2008, 09:12 PM
I actually lost some sleep last night thinking about that. A little pathetic, probably, but it happened none the less. Your only really adding to the team RIGHT NOW with C.C. I also think that we have PLENTY in our minor league system, and it's a lil refreshing being on the other buy end of all these trade talks, rather then on the sell end.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-05-2008, 11:02 PM
I'm happy either way.
If we get CC, it could be huge. If we keep LaPorta, I believe he will be great in the future. If we get CC and lose him in FA, we get more picks and replenish the farm system either more. SO I am happy either way.

Smithy04
07-05-2008, 11:05 PM
C.C. is my guy and I really would like to see him in our rotation and hopefully sign a deal to stay with us for mulitple years. I think LaPorta is going to be a great player in this league too. If we could trade Gamel and a few others for C.C., that would be the best scenario.

wissportsfan
07-06-2008, 12:36 AM
The way I look at it is that CC would really help us make that effort for the playoffs. I hate that we'd give up Laporta but we do have a number of OF's in the minor leagues that are looking pretty good. If Laporta becomes something special every Brewer and Indian fan will remember this trade.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 09:36 AM
Especially if we win the WS.

Dcup
07-06-2008, 02:12 PM
I voted no simply because if this trade goes through, and we dont resign Sabbathia at the end of the year, we may lose our top two pitchers. And would we have the cap to resign Sheets and CC? Doubtful. Granted, we would get the picks, but it kind of puts us back a couple of years. I would rather go after a second tier guy with a year or so left on his contract. (Rich Harden). Then if Sheets does leave we have a guy that could potentially take his place.

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 02:24 PM
There was an article from JS online in May, and it said the Brewers were going to be able to sign a "Top Notch Pitcher". I'll believe that over what people on here say.

IndiansFan337
07-06-2008, 02:41 PM
I don't think this question can be answered accurately until after this season.

If you acquire him & the team misses the postseason it will obviously look like a failed trade.

But if you acquire him & advance to the NLCS or World Series, it will look like a tremendous acquisition.

Obviously CC will of more help to the brewers this year than any of the prospects, but the risk/reward is what needs to be weighed in pulling the trigger on a deal like this. The risk being nothing is guaranteed(in terms of winning, advancing in playoffs). The reward being a much better opportunity to advance deep into the postseason on the backs of Sabathia & Sheets.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 03:22 PM
Yeah but unless we go all the way what do we really gain just from going deep in the playoffs? You lose Sheets and/or Sabathia and then we're back to square one.

Segway2_89
07-06-2008, 03:27 PM
CC has been my favorite non Brewer behind Randy Johnson so I would love him to be a Brewer

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 03:35 PM
Yeah but unless we go all the way what do we really gain just from going deep in the playoffs? You lose Sheets and/or Sabathia and then we're back to square one.

you don't know?

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 03:37 PM
you don't know?

Please explain. What does it really do for us in the long run if we make a nice little run deep into the playoffs only to lose our two best pitchers in the offseason and lose LaPorta in the trade?

Unless we win the world series the trade would be a waste. Other than being able to say "hey we finally made the playoffs", in the long term it would be meaningless if we can't replicate that success the next year.

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 04:12 PM
Please explain. What does it really do for us in the long run if we make a nice little run deep into the playoffs only to lose our two best pitchers in the offseason and lose LaPorta in the trade?

Unless we win the world series the trade would be a waste. Other than being able to say "hey we finally made the playoffs", in the long term it would be meaningless if we can't replicate that success the next year.

Well do you ever want to see the Brewers make the playoffs? This is the sort of thing we need to do to help.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 04:20 PM
Well do you ever want to see the Brewers make the playoffs? This is the sort of thing we need to do to help.

I want to see us in the playoffs for more than one year.

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 04:25 PM
I want to see us in the playoffs for more than one year.

Trading away one of our best prospects doesn't mean we'll be there one year and then never again or something. LaPorta isn't proven yet, although I'm sure he's going to be good. Winning teams don't only come thru the farm. Even though it's a huge part, there are still trades and free agency in the offseason. We are in win now mode, so I don't know what you are expecting out of the front office. They're going after the best guy that's available and to me that's dedication.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 04:33 PM
Yeah but unless we go all the way what do we really gain just from going deep in the playoffs? You lose Sheets and/or Sabathia and then we're back to square one.
well since you don't know, I'll tell you
1. We get more revenue--playoffs= sell outs = more money
2. Our young guys gain valueable playoff experience
3. CC and Sheets might want to remain, considering they want to play on a good team.
4. Back to square one, right :rolleyes:

Please explain. What does it really do for us in the long run if we make a nice little run deep into the playoffs only to lose our two best pitchers in the offseason and lose LaPorta in the trade?

Unless we win the world series the trade would be a waste. Other than being able to say "hey we finally made the playoffs", in the long term it would be meaningless if we can't replicate that success the next year.

what it does?
1. It could possibly increase our payroll a little
2. Lure guys like Sheets and CC with a good team
3. How would we lose them both? We have the money, and LaPorta is by no means "our future".

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 04:34 PM
Trading away one of our best prospects doesn't mean we'll be there one year and then never again or something. LaPorta isn't proven yet, although I'm sure he's going to be good. Winning teams don't only come thru the farm. Even though it's a huge part, there are still trades and free agency in the offseason. We are in win now mode, so I don't know what you are expecting out of the front office. They're going after the best guy that's available and to me that's dedication.

I'm not even talking about LaPorta really, I'm talking about the fact that Sabathia walks after this year. I'd rather have a pitcher who is not as good but will be here several years to fill out the rotation.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 04:35 PM
well since you don't know, I'll tell you
1. We get more revenue--playoffs= sell outs = more money
2. Our young guys gain valueable playoff experience
3. CC and Sheets might want to remain, considering they want to play on a good team.
4. Back to square one, right :rolleyes:


what it does?
1. It could possibly increase our payroll a little
2. Lure guys like Sheets and CC with a good team
3. How would we lose them both? We have the money, and LaPorta is by no means "our future".

You aren't seriously implying it's even plausible we keep both Sheets and Sabathia are you? Do you have any idea how much we'd have to give both of them? Sabathia turned down something like 4 years, 72 million from the Indians. You think we will beat that, AND keep Sheets who will command something similar?

By back to square one, I mean back to being on the outer edge of the playoff race. The Cubs would immediately be the favorite over us once again if Sabathia is gone.

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 04:36 PM
Then we'd most likely have to give up more. Erik Bedard is the only one I can think of that has another year after this but he is injury concerns.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 04:38 PM
Then we'd most likely have to give up more. Erik Bedard is the only one I can think of that has another year after this but he is injury concerns.
Giving up more would be fine, at least the guy can be a good #2 here for several years.

Though I doubt we'd have to give up 2 of LaPorta/Escobar/Gamel to get someone like Bedard.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 04:38 PM
You aren't seriously implying it's even plausible we keep both Sheets and Sabathia are you? Do you have any idea how much we'd have to give both of them? Sabathia turned down something like 4 years, 72 million from the Indians. You think we will beat that, AND keep Sheets who will command something similar?

By back to square one, I mean back to being on the outer edge of the playoff race. The Cubs would immediately be the favorite over us once again if Sabathia is gone.

yea, I am. We have 20 million off the books with cameron and Gagne alone. Add 5-10 mil for increase in payroll, that is 30 mil without counting anyone else off the payroll.

Know lets do some simple math. Sheets makes around 14 mil right? So say we offer him 17 mil a year, pretty reasonable. That is 3 more mil a year, we know have 27 million left.

Say we offer CC 18 mil a year, we now have 9 mil left for RP, OF, etc. So please explain, how is it not possible, much less plausable? You seem to think it isn't so now back it up. I just showed you how it is with 9 million to spare!

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 04:42 PM
yea, I am. We have 20 million off the books with cameron and Gagne alone. Add 5-10 mil for increase in payroll, that is 30 mil without counting anyone else off the payroll.

Know lets do some simple math. Sheets makes around 14 mil right? So say we offer him 17 mil a year, pretty reasonable. That is 3 more mil a year, we know have 27 million left.

Say we offer CC 18 mil a year, we now have 9 mil left for RP, OF, etc. So please explain, how is it not possible, much less plausable? You seem to think it isn't so now back it up. I just showed you how it is with 9 million to spare!

First of all, it's going to be more than 5-10 million dollar increase in payroll.

With arbitration several of our players our going up considerably in payroll. Hall alone goes up 4 million. Suppan also goes up 4 million. That's only 2 of the guys making up 8 million. Where do you get only 5-10 million dollar increase?

What you also neglect to mention is that we have to replace the guys coming off the books. We need new relievers to replace Gagne and Mota, a new center fielder to replace Cameron IF we don't pick up his 10 million dollar option. If we do pick it up, that's obviously 10 million on the payroll.

So no, our payroll will not be nearly as low as you think it will. NO WAY we keep both CC and Sheets.

Is that enough "backing it up" for you?

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 04:42 PM
yea, I am. We have 20 million off the books with cameron and Gagne alone. Add 5-10 mil for increase in payroll, that is 30 mil without counting anyone else off the payroll.

Know lets do some simple math. Sheets makes around 14 mil right? So say we offer him 17 mil a year, pretty reasonable. That is 3 more mil a year, we know have 27 million left.

Say we offer CC 18 mil a year, we now have 9 mil left for RP, OF, etc. So please explain, how is it not possible, much less plausable? You seem to think it isn't so now back it up. I just showed you how it is with 9 million to spare!

Do you understand then that having Sheets at $17, CC at 18 mil, Suppan at $13 puts us in a log jam for the next few years? It gives us no money to get really proven guys when we'd need them, it gives us less of a chance to grab someone big at the deadline, it hurts our chances of signing guys to multi year deals.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 04:46 PM
First of all, it's going to be more than 5-10 million dollar increase in payroll.

With arbitration several of our players our going up considerably in payroll. Hall alone goes up 4 million. Suppan also goes up 4 million. That's only 2 of the guys making up 8 million. Where do you get only 5-10 million dollar increase?
What you also neglect to mention is that we have to replace the guys coming off the books. We need new relievers to replace Gagne and Mota, a new center fielder to replace Cameron IF we don't pick up his 10 million dollar option. If we do pick it up, that's obviously 10 million on the payroll.

So no, our payroll will not be nearly as low as you think it will. NO WAY we keep both CC and Sheets.

Is that enough "backing it up" for you?

I'm talking about Mark generally increase the payroll, not our guys making more $.

I didn't forget or neglect, I said we have 9 mil left over.

No, that is bad backing up.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 04:47 PM
Do you understand then that having Sheets at $17, CC at 18 mil, Suppan at $13 puts us in a log jam for the next few years? It gives us no money to get really proven guys when we'd need them, it gives us less of a chance to grab someone big at the deadline, it hurts our chances of signing guys to multi year deals.

so getting sheets and CC aren't proven guys?
Trading for CC is grabbing someone big at the deadline?

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 04:48 PM
I'm talking about Mark generally increase the payroll, not our guys making more $.

I didn't forget or neglect, I said we have 9 mil left over.

No, that is bad backing up.

Ah, yet you can't point out why.

So you basically just admitted that in addition to Mark's usual payroll increase, there's a good deal of money going to the arbitration salary increases, which you didn't include in the first post.

And as BC said, we sign both of them long term and we have no freedom to add to the payroll later on if we need to.

As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Take that to the general MLB board that we can re-sign both, you'll get laughed at.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 04:51 PM
Ah, yet you can't point out why.

So you basically just admitted that in addition to Mark's usual payroll increase, there's a good deal of money going to the arbitration salary increases, which you didn't include in the first post.

And as BC said, we sign both of them long term and we have no freedom to add to the payroll later on if we need to.

As usual you have no idea what you're talking about. Take that to the general MLB board that we can re-sign both, you'll get laughed at.

I did incluede that, we have 9 mil left over after I said we get both

Coming from you :laugh: Means a lot :rolleyes:

We can easily resign both, do I think we will? No, Do I want us to? Right now, no. Do I want us to do the trade? Yes, if we can get long term deal for CC.

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 04:54 PM
Ken Rosenthal reports that it's basically done. The Brewers are the only one who have a good enough offer.


The Los Angeles Dodgers are out of the running for C.C. Sabathia, according to a major-league source, an indication that the Milwaukee Brewers may be nearing a trade for the Indians' left-hander

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 04:54 PM
Here's my question to you PCBB, how do we re-sign our young guys a couple years down the road? Hart, Hardy, and maybe Fielder will all need long term extensions worth a good amount of money unless we want to let them walk. How will we give them enough money if we have Sabathia and Sheets on the long term huge deals they will both want?

You're thinking about this like it's a video game or something. You aren't considering the long term effects.




Coming from you :laugh: Means a lot :rolleyes:


Coming from me? You mean the guy who embarrassed you so badly in this thread: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5251116#post5251116 that you basically ran away after trying to call me out in it earlier?

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 04:58 PM
Ken Rosenthal reports that it's basically done. The Brewers are the only one who have a good enough offer.
Don't know if that means it's basically done, just means that it's down to us and the Phillies. We still have to get them to take less than 2 of our premier prospects.

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 04:59 PM
Don't know if that means it's basically done, just means that it's down to us and the Phillies. We still have to get them to take less than 2 of our premier prospects.

The Phillies won't offer anyone near Matt LaPorta's ability.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 04:59 PM
Here's my question to you PCBB, how do we re-sign our young guys a couple years down the road? Hart, Hardy, and maybe Fielder will all need long term extensions worth a good amount of money unless we want to let them walk. How will we give them enough money if we have Sabathia and Sheets on the long term huge deals they will both want?

If we resign both CC and Sheets (which I already said I don't think we will, and I don't want to. I was just saying how it would be plausable/possible, even though you didn't think it would for some reason), I think Fielder is gone, and we will find/draft a decent replacement. I think hardy is replaced by the guy in the minors, and Hart we will resign. He also seems like the guy who would take a hometown discount. Or if Mark increases our payroll a ton, we get them all :D

You're thinking about this like it's a video game or something. You aren't considering the long term effects.

no, I don't. Even if I did, why wouldn't you think long term in a VG?


Coming from me? You mean the guy who embarrassed you so badly in this thread: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5251116#post5251116 that you basically ran away after trying to call me out in it earlier?

You didn't embarress me at all. This is an internet forum :laugh: Yea, I ran away, you got me :rolleyes:
I don't call anyone out (unless I make a sig bet, like i did with the heat fan. He thinks the heat will be better than the bucks this year, i think vise versa).

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:00 PM
The Phillies won't offer anyone near Matt LaPorta's ability.

Yes but as Olney was saying, if the Indians decide that one premier guy isn't enough, they might just take more guys who are farther away from the majors from the Phillies.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 05:02 PM
Yes but as Olney was saying, if the Indians decide that one premier guy isn't enough, they might just take more guys who are farther away from the majors from the Phillies.

couldn't we do that too though?

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:03 PM
You didn't embarress me at all. This is an internet forum :laugh: Yea, I ran away, you got me :rolleyes:

This coming from the guy who used to have a sig that had someone saying "I just got owned" or something followed by you saying "the usual result of an argument with PCBB" :rolleyes:


I don't call anyone out (unless I make a sig bet, like i did with the heat fan. He thinks the heat will be better than the bucks this year, i think vise versa).

No?


where is the response to my post? Oh, none because you were proved wrong.


Sounds like a call out to me. I then proceeded to respond to said post which I didn't see the first tiem, prove you wrong and get no response.


couldn't we do that too though?

Do we want to though? I don't think Melvin would.

Plus I think our farm system as a whole is rated like 21st in the MLB or something. It's not too deep outside of the top guys like LaPorta and Gamel or Escobar.

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 05:05 PM
Yes but as Olney was saying, if the Indians decide that one premier guy isn't enough, they might just take more guys who are farther away from the majors from the Phillies.

And why wouldn't we just do that then? Melvin would love to be able to save LaPorta and still get Sabathia. Lower level guys are a long way away from being anything worthy to watch.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:07 PM
And why wouldn't we just do that then? Melvin would love to be able to save LaPorta and still get Sabathia. Lower level guys are a long way away from being anything worthy to watch.

Because it's one thing to get rid of LaPorta, one guy who we have something of an equal in with Gamel, it's another to get rid of a bunch of guys that we might really need down the road.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:08 PM
Buster Olney just said on ESPN radio that the Brewers and Indians are still in the same place they were 24 hours ago, going back and forth with the Indians still trying to steal a second premier prospect from us.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 05:09 PM
This coming from the guy who used to have a sig that had someone saying "I just got owned" or something followed by you saying "the usual result of an argument with PCBB" :rolleyes:

That was a joke, which is why it was up a week. They both were jokes, the other one was with shieldsz, who said I just got owned (by wrigs, it was very funny, so i put it in my sig, had nothign to do with me).


Do we want to though? I don't think Melvin would.

Plus I think our farm system as a whole is rated like 21st in the MLB or something. It's not too deep outside of the top guys like LaPorta and Gamel or Escobar.

Yea, but we have a few picks in the first round this year right?
Are you sure it is rated that low?

Jpripper88
07-06-2008, 05:10 PM
And why wouldn't we just do that then? Melvin would love to be able to save LaPorta and still get Sabathia. Lower level guys are a long way away from being anything worthy to watch.

Well the Phillies' prospects are still very high upside, they just aren't as high level yet. The Brewers don't have the guys with as high upside at the low levels. They have very solid guys lower (Gindl and BB) but they are not equal to some of the players the Phillies have in and around A ball.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:10 PM
Yea, but we have a few picks in the first round this year right?
Are you sure it is rated that low?

I'm not sure, but I believe that's what someone here said in another thread.

And it sounds about right to be honest. Our system is basically devoid of future star pitchers, Jeffress is the only one who comes to mind. I don't think our single A is very deep. We'll see what happens with our big draft this year.

But as of now I'm sure the Phillies have better lower level guys to offer than us.

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 05:11 PM
Well the Phillies' prospects are still very high upside, they just aren't as high level yet. The Brewers don't have the guys with as high upside at the low levels. They have very solid guys lower (Gindl and BB) but they are not equal to some of the players the Phillies have in and around A ball.

Ohhhh. Well in that case since you told me this, I'm sorry I ever doubted your scouting expertize.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 05:12 PM
I'm not sure, but I believe that's what someone here said in another thread.

And it sounds about right to be honest. Our system is basically devoid of future star pitchers, Jeffress is the only one who comes to mind. I don't think our single A is very deep. We'll see what happens with our big draft this year.

But as of now I'm sure the Phillies have better lower level guys to offer than us.

and pena who could be a future closer.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:15 PM
and pena who could be a future closer.

Yeah but if he is really that good as a closer we shouldn't trade him. It'd be nice to have a closer that's not a one or two year wonder.

Jpripper88
07-06-2008, 05:15 PM
Brewers' fans a question/proposal...Since you by all accounts will be looking for a CF next year would you make the deal LaPorta and Escobar for Sabathia if Trevor Crowe was added? He has found his stroke again and is ripping the ball in AA. He is a very good defensive CF and gets on base.

Just a thought. The Indians really can't use him well because of Sizemore, but I thought he may be a good fit for the Brewers. Maybe even do a deal of Sabathia, Betancourt and Crowe for LaPorta, Escobar, and Green. I would do that as an Indians fan, but would you guys do that from the Brewers side? Grab an ace, add a solid bullpen arm (albeit who has struggled this year) and a player that could be your CF for next year. Essentially you get Betancourt and Crowe to change it from Cain to Escobar. Would that be worth it?

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:18 PM
Crowe's too far from the majors for that to work. Plus we do have Gwynn.

Jpripper88
07-06-2008, 05:19 PM
Ohhhh. Well in that case since you told me this, I'm sorry I ever doubted your scouting expertize.

Not sure what you mean by this, but I didn't mean to come off as a prick if that is what happened. I was just trying to say that the Phillies seem to have better lower level guys and so their deal would make sense if they were giving like 3 guys with LaPorta like upside, but who were still in A ball as opposed to getting one really high upside guy like LaPorta who is close and two other pieces who don't have as high upside and are still not very advanced.

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 05:19 PM
Yeah but if he is really that good as a closer we shouldn't trade him. It'd be nice to have a closer that's not a one or two year wonder.

oh, right, I want to keep him. I was just saying he was a minor league pitcher who could be really good for us in the future. Plus didn't we draft a few pitchers this year. Guys that looked like they would be really good? Tall frame, hard throwing, left, almost 99% sure we did, so hopefully they pan out.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:20 PM
Brewers beat writer Tom Haudricourt is saying he heard from an Indians source that a conference is being scheduled tomorrow for their off day. Trade announcement?

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 05:21 PM
Brewers beat writer Tom Haudricourt is saying he heard from an Indians source that a conference is being scheduled tomorrow for their off day. Trade announcement?

I Hope so.

Brew Crew
07-06-2008, 05:22 PM
Not sure what you mean by this, but I didn't mean to come off as a prick if that is what happened. I was just trying to say that the Phillies seem to have better lower level guys and so their deal would make sense if they were giving like 3 guys with LaPorta like upside, but who were still in A ball as opposed to getting one really high upside guy like LaPorta who is close and two other pieces who don't have as high upside and are still not very advanced.

Yeah, *** hole comment on my part. I just want CC.

Jpripper88
07-06-2008, 05:24 PM
Crowe's too far from the majors for that to work. Plus we do have Gwynn.

I think Crowe is ready. This is his 2nd year in AA (where almost all of Cleveland's prospects spring from) and after the rough start to last year he has been hitting great, getting on base and has hit for more power this year. I really think he would be ready for a callup this year (as part of the September expansion) and then could play in the ML next year.

Yeah I knew about Gwynn, but I am not very high on him and from reading things here it didn't sound like many Brewers' fans were either because of his lack of pop and only ok baserunning.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:40 PM
This is also interesting, LaPorta sat for Huntsville today. Makes you think something is imminent.

chicagofan71
07-06-2008, 05:51 PM
Well, all indications are that you guys got CC. Congrats. Now, you'll most likely take the divsion, and us and the Cards will battle for the WC

Jpripper88
07-06-2008, 05:52 PM
This is also interesting, LaPorta sat for Huntsville today. Makes you think something is imminent.

Yep I think it is happening, just a matter now of the announcement and seeing who exactly is involved.

jwdaly07
07-06-2008, 05:53 PM
Well, all indications are that you guys got CC. Congrats. Now, you'll most likely take the divsion, and us and the Cards will battle for the WC

Well I don't know about that...The Cubs Brewers and Cards will be a battle till the end.

sieracki24
07-06-2008, 06:20 PM
Haha..I heard that Vegas has changed the Milwaukee starter for Tuesday's game from Manny Parra to TBA...

620 AM radio

PackCrewBuckBad
07-06-2008, 06:32 PM
Well I don't know about that...The Cubs Brewers and Cards will be a battle till the end.

I think the cards are going to hit a big downslide soon. I don't see them hanging with us.